CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Hi guys, thanks for commiserations and best wishes! I got in touch with council and they advised they are keeping a log of all cycling injuries and falls as well as Spokes, so a cheeky wee FOI from a journo in the next few months wouldn't go amiss.
They said that cycling accidents are chronically under reported though. So that's not so good.
I just got a standard response from cooncil saying they were planning on putting up.... MORE SIGNAGE.
Ugh.
So I've just checked Friday night's camera footage and there was definitely a taxi observed black-handed pulling a U-turn from the eastbound lanes to then sit on the double yellows over the tracks.
Does anyone know if this is a legal manoeuvre? (The U-turn, I know the second bit isn't)
I have looked for a no U-turn sing but sadly haven't spotted one, so I suspect there's nothing against doing the turn safely and responsibly.
Got the train into Haymarket last night and the taxis were queued so far back the last ones wheels were crossing the tram tracks. He might get a fright if he does it again when the trams are running!
Also like Claire I wrote to trams email address over the weekend and in fairness got a very quick reply at 8.30 on Monday morning from someone called David. First few lines were personalised but the rest was clearly a standard text that's been put together.
I can post the full reply if someone can suggest the best method? (Bit lengthy for a post here!)
I imagine once the trams start running the incidence of taxis double parking in the jug handle will grow.
If a tram gets stuck because taxis (or other vehicles) are parked on the lines, is it the Police that will be responsible for enforcement or do the tram bylaws give them the power to move vehicles on (hopefully using some sort of cow-catcher device on the front of the tram)
@deckard112 I'm sure people who are interested won't mind a long post - spread it over two posts if you think it is really too lengthly.
Network Rail apprantly want to scrap the taxi zone to create a disabled drop off.
If there's no taxi rank I'm suuuuuure they won't just park up on the main road to ply their trade then.
"
Edinburgh Council wants a new stopping zone for two vehicles at the back of the taxi rank.
But Network Rail officials are expected to recommend the rank be scrapped to give those with disabilities easier access.
The rail network operator wants the problem fixed by middle of next month when Haymarket’s new concourse is due to open.
"
How long have they been planning/building the new station??
Without enforcement, anything they decide to do is pointless. We just have to look to Waverley Bridge to understand how little fear the double yellow line engenders in the city's taxi population...
"
The following notes have been prepared for consideration by the Tram Transition Board in response to issues raised by Members, local media, the cycling lobby and some direct contacts from the public. The matters discussed herein are presented in relation to the Haymarket Junction, which opened for traffic use on Saturday 12th October 2013, and relate specifically to reported incidents involving cyclists and taxi use on the westbound section of the junction between Morrison Street and Clifton Terrace.
"
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1r4t1cooydv6tj3/Haymarket%20Junction%20Operational%20Review%2011Nov13.pdf
So the council will be using social media to highlight the risks at Haymarket and advising use of the jug handle.
Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY???
A new stick to beat cyclists had just been set down.
No helmet? Then the accident is your fault.
No high-vis? Then the accident is your fault.
Didn't look at Twitter before heading through? Then the accident is your fault.
Sorry, but this document does nothing to reassure me that this junction will be any safer any time soon.
And yes, I am angry about this. One of Chdot's videos showed me almost falling on the rails, and others have actually fallen and been injured, so a nice PowerPoint doesn't cut it frankly.
Much for discussion in that document, including: "CEC Trams team to review the road surface in the specific area of cycle/track interaction (this doesn’t presently have a high friction surface overlay), which may reduce the risk of slipping. "
I don't have much confidence in a high friction surface helping.
1) It might encourage over-confidence approaching the rails, increasing the number of slipping incidents on the rails.
2) Once your wheel has begun to slide on the rail, I can't see an anti-friction surface suddenly making you regain control as the wheel opts to take the path of least resistance (along the rail).
3) With this (and seemingly most) council's record of maintaining cycle-specific road surfaces, I predict it will break up and become less effective within a short period of time.
"The process of active enforcement of the Station taxi rank ... The focus has been on explaining to taxi drivers ... to better manage the area during peak commuting hours, when cycle activity is at its highest demand. Additional road markings will be installed to the back of the marked taxi rank bay to provide a ‘Drop Off’ area – this will further deter the propensity for excessive queues back onto the live running lanes."
1)Why should they "better manage the area" only during busy periods of cycle activity?
2) An extended "drop-off area"? So they will be extending the taxi rank, actually encouraging more taxis to stop there!
The fact is, Haymarket Station simply isn't a suitable place for taxis. Why wasn't a drive-through area included in the plans for the new building? I appreciate that's more of a rhetorical question - we know that the whole tram saga has been poorly thought out.
Of course, another option would have been to cover over the railway lines with a roof parking and taxi area.
Segregated cyclelane (both ways) on the north side of the road is the only solution here. Extend it along Shandwick Place to meet the George Street cyclelane and along the A8 out to the Maybury (it's a wide street, plenty of room) and - bingo - the Cooncil solves this PR and safety disaster and goes a fair bit towards meeting its ambitious cycling targets in one fell swoop.
PS - yes that would make some sense and take a lot of the heat out of the situation - so dont expect it to happen too soon !
I happened to be at the west end for an appointment after work. The cycle from Edinburgh Park was pretty much an offroad joy until I reached Roseburn.
However I did stop and have a good look at the westbound area around Haymarket - first proper look since it was re-opened - and it is embarrassingly bad (much, much worse than I thought).
I am pretty handy, but wouldnt cycle that every day if you paid me.
I hate to say it, but given the volume of cyclists and other traffic there daily, I cant see us getting through the winter without something really horrible happening.
I was able to spend just over 10 minutes outside the station today, until 4pm. In that time, I didn't spot a single cyclist break any rules (or crash, thankfully). Taxi drivers on the other hand were doing just about everything wrong.
Double parking, stopping in the cycle lane and over the ASL on red, parking outside the jug-handle to make using the lane harder and more dangerous, etc. The first guy I encountered at the back of the queue was not only on the main road but cleaning the inside of his taxi from the driver's side of the vehicle!. So his passenger door was wide open and his rear (as well as the cab's) was sticking out into the road.
I'm working on editing down a video so hopefully will have it to share later. Even edited, it's going to be about 9 minutes long though.
While you wait, a question: Just who is permitted to drop off passengers in the jug handle at present? Black cabs, obviously. Anyone else? Private hire? Public? Private organisations?
I see it's currently a "non-regulated" rank, so who is not restricted from stopping there at present. I have a particular reason for asking as will be clear if I get the video online ok.
Much for discussion in that document, including: "CEC Trams team to review the road surface in the specific area of cycle/track interaction (this doesn’t presently have a high friction surface overlay), which may reduce the risk of slipping. "
When will the CEC Trams team actually look at the ORR standards for placing tram rails in the carriageway, several cyclists' falls have not been through interaction with the railhead or keeper, and it is very clear both visually and from direct measurement that the surface flatness is well below standard for the specifications set by ORR.
These specifications were developed through considerable discussions in the planning phase of the NET on-street track, when I was working with Pedals and the team from the then Railways Inspectorate (HMRI) who were then incorporated into the ORR for their function as the safety regulator.
As Arellcat maintains a far better Flickr library than I do, I suggest checking out her pictures on embedded rail on various system around the UK, and seeing how much better the standards of finish are than we see in Edinburgh. Bear in mind the figures of 3mm and 6mm, as you read various standards for flatness of road surfaces, and features such as thermoplastic markings, dropped kerbs, embedded ironwork (3mm - a prize for finding any which is actually maintained to this standard and thus no threat to bringing a 2-wheeler down ), and even level crossings set a limit of 5mm for the level difference between rail and road surfaces.
Note also that a whacking pay-out for a civil claim due to faulty rail levels relative to the road, sees that Sheffield Supertram continually monitor their 'flatness' across the rail-road joint with a limit of 3mm MAXIMUM height of rail above abutting surfaces. I took an opportunity to look at the tracks in St Andrew Square on my last visit and saw huge variation in the levels of the poured seal between rail and abutting roadway, in some places the dip seemed to be over 10mm, and this was not an evenly spread discrepancy in level by a long way.
Peter Rayner, appearing before the Transport Select Committee Inquiry in to level crossing safety also made some comments relevant to off-street tram routes that are little different to railway lines, but instead of having level crossings with road and rail 'signalling' they often have line of sight operation for both road and rail vehicles. However unlike on-street running, the braking performance from the higher off-street speeds (usually 50mph/80Kph) may be less effective as the magnetic track brakes perform differently at higher speeds, and the direct contact (with rails) are not really appropriate for use above 30 mph.
Taxi-wise - although NR has blocked off the easiest option by building the new cafe block there still remains a tiny access option along the top of the wall and across the tunnel portals from the forecourt, on to the Eastbound side of Dalry Road (and potentially Distillery Lane) which can be used for a taxi reservoir, much in the same way that Hope Street has nearly 200 metres of holding lane for taxis to feed the rank at Central Station. A 3-cab rank is ridiculously small for a station like Haymarket which may use for the certainty of the 40 minute journey time from Glasgow and much faster/more direct routes to many parts of Edinburgh avoiding the City centre. A less satisfactory link could be delivered by a tight cab-only left turn connection across the front of Ryries.
Another option might be to re-use the foundations supporting the old footbridge at Haymarket (which is being taken away) and put in a new bridge to Distillery Lane, as a direct route for the bus stops on Dalry Road, and a relocated taxi rank, also easing the overload of pedestrian traffic at the pinch point past Ryries, by providing a further route out from the station. A taxi rank on Dalry Road would have the majority of cab departures able to set off directly - without the need, even if banned, to make a right/U - turn to head East, South or North by the most direct route for your fare (this really hasn't been thought through for taxis, or cyclists (and not brilliantly for pedestrians squeezing past Ryries back door)).
This of course still leaves the taxi pick-up and drop off set- apart from the new main entrance to Haymarket Station which places tram and bus stops outside with pedestrian (and no cycle) access. Tuns well counter to the principles being set out in this document http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/files/13.11.04.fixing-the-link.pdf in which Abellio show how they deliver properly integrated transport hubs at Dutch stations, and set out proposals for several Greater Anglia ones. Abellio are bidding for the Scotrail franchise next year and putting up a high profile in the run up to the final bid evaluation, showing their Bike & Go bikes at the Cycling Scotland conference. Now if Abellio does win the franchise......
last night going back around 7:20 pm, this morn around 7:50 AM taxis overflowing out back of rank and would force riders to cross tramline. Of course, they may move when you approached and asked them kindly. Last nights' had moved by the time I got to it.
As promised, they reply I got when I logged the accident I witnessed with the Trams Team -
Thank you for your email and comments regarding cycling at Haymarket.
I have passed these details on to the Health and Safety Team for
logging. We, along with Spokes, agreed to record all incidents along the
tram route regarding cycling as cycling incidents are widely under
reported.
For your information, a great deal of effort has gone into the tram
project design. Design decisions on policy matters have not been taken
lightly and I can confirm that Spokes and other cycling groups have been
involved in that process. Indeed, the Council agreed with Spokes to
appoint an independent consultant from Europe to assist in that process
and undertake a Cycle Integration Study.
Many cities in Europe use the same type of track arrangement as we now
have in Edinburgh. In these cities, cyclists and other road vehicles are
able to operate safely together in the city centre. With time to adjust,
education and courtesy, we strongly believe that all modes of transport
in our city centre can operate safely and efficiently.
At junctions where there is a high demand to cross the rails at an angle
that is less than 90 degrees, cycle facilities have been provided. At
this location, an alternative signalised cycle route has been provided
in front of Haymarket Station which makes it easier for cyclists to
cross the rails at an appropriate angle, and away from general traffic.
Elsewhere, the reported cycle incidents are spread over the length of
the tram route and are not concentrated at one location where facilities
could be considered. So to raise awareness of the tram rails and how to
negotiate them correctly, information has been provided through local
media, leaflets, direct contact with cycling groups and a cycle training
event took place on Princes Street that was run by the Bike Station. As
the operational stage approaches, further educational events surrounding
the tram will take place and pedestrians and cyclists will be heavily
featured in these. An instructional video was also commissioned by the
Bike Station and this can be viewed at:
http://www.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk/info/23/trams/40/cycling_and_tra
ms/2
Further information on cycling with trams can be viewed at:
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20085/trams/2077/tram_safety/2
There is currently permanent signage (Red Warning Triangle - Tram
Tracks) on the westbound section of Clifton Terrace next to Ryrie's Bar
and additional temporary signage is currently in place in the form of
'Caution Tram Tracks' signs at the following locations:
Manor Place - southbound on approach to West Maitland Street
Shandwick Place - eastbound in the central reserve at the west end
of the platform
Torphichen Street - northbound at West Maitland Street
Morrison Street - into West Maitland Street
Morrison Street - into Haymarket Terrace
Grosvenor Street - southbound into Haymarket
Dalry Road - eastbound into Haymarket
In light of the recent incidents reported in the Haymarket vicinity
further proposals to address the immediate concerns are going to be
implemented. These include:
Enforcing the misuse of the taxi stance in the area
Additional signage has been installed in the area raising awareness of
the tram tracks for cyclists
Additional signage has been installed in the area to direct cyclists to
use the dedicated cycle facilities which are provided to allow cyclists
to avoid the tracks in that area
Further media promotion regarding the cycle/track interaction for
cyclists
In addition it should be noted that the advice on how best to cross the
tram rails is contained in the Highway Code and this is listed below:
306
All road users, but particularly cyclists and motorcyclists, should take
extra care when driving or riding close to or crossing the tracks,
especially if the rails are wet. You should take particular care when
crossing the rails at shallow angles, on bends and at junctions. It is
safest to cross the tracks directly at right angles. Other road users
should be aware that cyclists and motorcyclists may need more space to
cross the tracks safely.
I hope this is of assistance.
Regards,
David
David Haxton | Customer Services Manager | Tram Co-ordination Team |
City of Edinburgh Council
9 Lochside Avenue | Edinburgh Park | Edinburgh | EH12 9DJ
Tel: 0131 529 6164
Check out our video, The Edinburgh Tram - Airport to City Centre, on
YouTube.
Thanks for posting.
That's all well and fine, but it basically says 'cyclists will just have to get used to it' and 'we hope that eventually all modes of transport will be nice to each other'.
And 'yeah we know taxis are a bit of a problem - especially as they are having to get used to the completely inadequate provision'.
But, hey, cyclists and taxi drivers are both well known whingers, so it's just tough.
Trams rool, OK.
"
Indeed, the Council agreed with Spokes to
appoint an independent consultant from Europe to assist in that process
and undertake a Cycle Integration Study.
"
I seem to remember this was mainly about Leith Walk and CEC/tie mostly ignored the resulting report.
@deckard112 The letter you have received is edited from a standard one which they are sending to people who have had tramline crashes. The references to Spokes are unfortunately rather misleading and Spokes will be complaining and asking for this to be rewritten. The current wording could be taken to imply that Spokes has approved all aspects of the design, which is far from the case. Certainly Spokes has gone to liaison meetings, and some improvements have resulted, as in the article linked below - but basically this was trying to bring some amelioration of the consequences of an initial bad layout design.
It just shows how vital it is to lobby strongly from the earliest stages rather than just once something actually appears on the ground.
We had lost the initial fight against the layout - and a great deal of effort went into that fight, years ago now, but we were up against a council desperate to move quickly so as not to lose government tram funding and a very powerful streetscape/heritage lobby with its ideas for the appearance of the tram on Princes Street.
The background can be found in part 2 of 'Tramline Traumas' on the spokes website.
Chdot is more or less correct about the recommendations of the Dutch consultant, except that they were not ignored by the council/TIE - they were rejected.
@DdF
Thanks.
Sometimes I like being corrected...
Worse than I had remembered!
"
Report by Dutch consultant Hans van der Stok [pdf 7035k] brought over by Spokes and by TIE to advise on bike/tram integration onroad. Despite Spokes’s best efforts over a very long period, most of his recommendations were rejected by TIE and the Council – for 2 main reasons. First, to preserve as much car-parking space as possible on Leith Walk. Second, to reserve road width for a central island – some technical reasons were given for this (e.g. traffic light visibility) but as it is extremely rare in other tram systems we strongly suspect that it was done for ‘streetscape’ reasons (i.e. because it supposedly looks nice).
"
http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/documents/public-transport/tram/#s2
"we hope that eventually all modes of transport will be nice to each other"
Yeah. In the meantime I'll avoid the jug handle and go slowly to help regular motor traffic get used to cyclists needing to go slowly and use the full width of the lane across the tracky bit.
Incidentally, unless it was up again this morning, the sign about using the "jug handle" has been face down on the pavement for several days, if not over a week now.
....and the traffic lights are still in operation despite the new Give Way sign.
From the Dutch/van der Stok report:
For reasons of safety it is essential to meet the standards [for cycle facilities], or not have these facilities at all.
This.
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