Once again I have to bring up this ongoing topic of cyclists who insist on trying to burn out the retinas of approaching fellow-cyclists and pedestrians, This ott selfish behaviour is at its worst on the canal path- I unfortunately encountered 4 of these idiots in quick succession around 540 tonight just about Meggetland. Apart from the lights being far too bright on such shared paths the owners insist on having them pointed straight at oncoming eyes!!i
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Those over-bright lights again
(141 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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I agree this is very annoying, but wondering how you know if your own light is too bright, other than someone telling you? Maybe if it's over certain number of lumens? Pretty sure mine isn't bright enough to cause a problem but curious how one would know.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I find that if the main beam pattern is projected onto the road ahead a few metres to show up any potholes etc that should be fine, in addition if you walk a similar distance to the front of your bike propped against a wall/post and look towards the light you 'll know if it's going to temporarily blind others or not.
Posted 11 years ago # -
It's tricky to check with a generator because they drop to a lower output or turn off when you stop.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@KarenJS A further thing to consider is whether your light is illuminating oncoming cyclists' faces. If you can see their face lit up by your light, you can be almost certain it's dazzling them.
If their faces remain in darkness, you can be reasonably confident that you're not. The darker they are, the better, I reckon.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@KarenJS: Get someone you trust not to steal or crash your bike to get on it and ride towards you at night, in a variety of background lighting and head height scenarios.
This idea has been mooted a few times here, but never quite got off the ground.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm with you on this Bigjack... same happened to me on WoL path last night. I've got a Moon XP 500 lumens, which is quite bright, so always tilt it downward for any oncoming traffic - cars/bikes/walkers - but on the up and down sections of my route, I've found it best to position it straight ahead (to avoid crashing into something). With bright lights, it's easy to see where your beam is pointing - that's the whole bloody point - so, in my case anyway, it's easy enough to 'dip' the light simply by tilting it downwards.
So last night, I saw the lights ahead on a long, straight section and I duly 'dipped' my light... The 'on-comer' has got two real dazzlers, so I angle my light back up to 'full beam' for a moment and hope for a response. Nowt! By now, they're really obscuring my vision, it's pitch black, except for these 'floodlights' in my face, so back onto full beam, but still nothing. Sooo... I just slowed down to prevent a head-on or ploughing into the trees and let him pass, with a wee friendly word of advice in the passing...
I worry about guys like this because a more aggressive and/or bad tempered person than myself may consider putting out a timely leg at the appropriate time and sending this poor character flying right into the trees... but such thoughts would never even cross my mind.
Posted 11 years ago # -
As I said in the rubbish cycling thread yesterday, I had a similar experience on the Blackhall path from someone I would reckon was in his fifties so you would hope he had built up enough knowledge of some sort of etiquette. But no, when I asked him politely to dip his dazzling dual lights a little, he told me to go away and fornicate. Charming.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Sounds like we're sharing all these experiences, Focus! Do you know who you're dad was? ;)
Posted 11 years ago # -
On the canal, I find that a Cree on it's 30% setting (360 lumens?) is perfectly adequate to light my way...and I have it pointed down towards my front wheel. But one of the benefits of the rubber-band mounting system is that the angle can be adjusted instantly if required.
I'm going to hypothesise that some of the offenders with the dazzling lights have got lights which are in a fixed position because the lights have a poor beam pattern that doesn't light their way ahead in darkness unless they are pointed almost horizontally. Unfortunately, that's also the 'dazzle' position for oncoming cyclists. If they can't change the position or the beam pattern then they're stuck with a choice between dazzling or seeing in the dark?
Not making excuses here, just trying to understand why this is happening so much.
Don't think dual lights are strictly necessary though ;-) Sounds like a downhiller who got a bit lost...
Posted 11 years ago # -
I personally have two lights because I read somewhere (unfortunately can't remember where sorry) that it's easier for cars to judge how far away you are if there are two lights. Something to do with how the brain works out distance, which is why motorbikes often have two lights and why it's harder to work out how far away a car with a broken tail light is.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I get your point, Snowy, but that sorta' equates to, "Sorry officer, but my dipped headlights don't work, so I need to stay permanently on full beam..."
I'm very much a novice cyclist but am well aware of the 'dazzling' effect, likely because I'm also a car driver. As 90 percent of cyclists (allegedly) are car drivers, then I'd have thought that they were all aware of the dazzling effect too, no?
It's possible that the dazzling cyclists with no 'dip' option are the other ten percent with no common sense though, I suppose... ;)
Posted 11 years ago # -
I have no problem with two lights, Zenfrozt... or three, four, five... so long as they're not dazzling and impeding the vision of oncoming bikes/cars/pedestrians. Simple courtesy and consideration for others.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"it's easier for cars to judge how far away you are if there are two lights. Something to do with how the brain works out distance, which is why motorbikes often have two lights"
Well, yes, but.
If motorbikes have two lights they are next to each other.
There used to be cases where drivers saw two (separated) lights coming towards then and assumed it was another car - further away than the actual approaching motorbike...
If you use two lights on the road, probably wise to have one flashing.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Sorry officer, but my dipped headlights don't work, so I need to stay permanently on full beam..."
Yup, my point exactly...they have put themselves in the position where for visibility they need their light to be straight ahead, but can't 'dip' it due to the mounting.
I'm beginning to wonder if there's a market for light mountings that have two quick-change positions. In the absence of course of people using decently designed lights in the first place.
There is a special place in Hades reserved for the people who use their flash mode on the pitch dark sections of the canal.
Posted 11 years ago # -
There is a special place in Hades reserved for the people who use their flash mode on the pitch dark sections of the canal.
Indeed.
Posted 11 years ago # -
On the car headlights at full beam point, if someone has forgotten to dip their lights they can get a wee flash from the lights of car coming the other way and usually then dip them. Seems quite a few people asked to dip their bike lights decline to do so using choice language?
I dip my beam on canal until I get beyond wester hailes, when it starts to get very dark. This is enough but I have an old cateye rechargeable that has since become at least twice as bright in the next incarnation. I think bike lights now available really light up the environment in a way mine doesn't and if I became used to such brightness I might start forgetting to dip?
nhave twisted my mount so that it dips down to left. However I have used the same light with two different mounts and the second mount marginally bigger so now I also have a constant rattle that alerts people to my presence. I suggested last winter that cateye etc design a mount that is asymmetric and will default to a down to the left setting. However in other countries ,ah be the beam is dipped down to the right? Tis would need a different mounting?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Brightness is in the eye of the beholder.
Disembarking at Waverley with my bike at my side the other evening, I had not realised my bottle dynamo was still angled into my tyre sidewall until I saw glimmers from the halogen lamp on folk's legs ahead. The B&M Lumotec is angled as low as possible, and attached to the fork crown.
Still, as I walked toward the barrier the chief clippy squinted at my light, then shielded his eyes, gave me a scowl, and barked "Switch your lights off in the station please!"
I duly obliged.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm very much a novice cyclist but am well aware of the 'dazzling' effect, likely because I'm also a car driver. As 90 percent of cyclists (allegedly) are car drivers, then I'd have thought that they were all aware of the dazzling effect too, no?
Yes but car headlights are all more or less the same. If they are on full beam they are dazzling, if not they are not. Bike lights are all different.
Although more motor vehicles nowadays seem to have those very dazzling blue headlights. But the drivers presumably think they are fine because everyone else's lights are fine..
I think the increasing popularity of very bright lights on bikes is very simple to explain. We live in a country that is filled with drivers who "didn't see you" no matter how bright your lights are. Until we stop blaming the victims, the only thing that is going to happen is bike lights will get brighter and brighter and flashier and flashier. It may also explain the aggression of the lights owners. No-one likes getting killed or hurt.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"I think the increasing popularity of very bright lights on bikes is very simple to explain. We live in a country that is filled with drivers who "didn't see you" "
True but the 'issue' here is about 'appropriate' off-road use and whether some bike riders 'don't know', 'don't know how', 'don't care', 'can't' reduce brightness and/or angle of beam.
Is there a general feeling that on canal/NEPN etc. that flashing lights shouldn't be used?
Are 'traditional' small blinkies OK?
Posted 11 years ago # -
You can't just "dip" them by flicking a finger like you can with car headlights.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@Min that is definitely a problem.
Some lights can be pointed down more easily than others, some have different power settings, shouldn't be any need for max power twin lights on path network (as opposed to 'off-road').
Discouraging use of flashing mode might be a good idea(?)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Lights inspection @ PY next week?
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Yes but car headlights are all more or less the same. If they are on full beam they are dazzling, if not they are not. Bike lights are all different."
That's no excuse though, is it? Surely any cyclist should 'sort' whatever light setup they've got to ensure they do not dazzle oncoming traffic, especially if they've got particularly bright lights? Anyone who does not do so and is consequently happy enough to dazzle anyone coming towards him is, in my opinion, very inconsiderate, to say the least.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Re twin lights on motorbikes, you will notice on all new motorcycles that only one light at a time is lit, the apochryphal(sp?) story is that this comes after a car driver managed to weasel out of responsibility for causing a crash by claiming about an oncoming twin headlight motorcycle that they "thought it was a car far away".
About as convincing as Emma Way's defence imho but there you go :-<Posted 11 years ago # -
Some lights can be pointed down more easily than others, some have different power settings, shouldn't be any need for max power twin lights on path network (as opposed to 'off-road').
Mine has a mode button where I can scroll down through the intensities. This suddenly becomes a lot harder to do on an icy path in the dark with frozen fingers. So even my well-designed light is badly designed..
Posted 11 years ago # -
Personally, I've never had a handlebar light I couldn't simply dip manually. Whether tightened to the bar with a nut and bolt or a flip-screw, I've always found it possible to balance solid mounting with just enough freedom to allow it to be moved by hand safely.
I've certainly found my C&B Seen clone to be very bright indeed when viewed from in front, even on the lower setting, so mine is constantly dipped till the main beam is about 3 feet in front of my wheel unless conditions are poor enough to need to see further ahead. And I'm still ready to dip if anyone comes the other way.
I would rate the percentage of non-dippers to be around 65% genuinely ignorant of the problem they're causing and 35% with an "I'm All Right Jack" attitude. (purely an inkling rather than a scientific percentage).
With those I've asked to lower their beam, the percentage is 66.66% good attitude and 33.33% appalling (of the 3 people I've engaged!). And one of the 66.66% is on this forum of course :-)
Posted 11 years ago # -
This suddenly becomes a lot harder to do on an icy path in the dark with frozen fingers
Yeah, the mode button on my leyzene is pita too, you have to hold it in for just the right lenght of time to switch or it goes off or cycles back to the original setting, this is not ideal on the canal.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I've given up cycling along the canal at night due to this. I'll take my chances on Colinton Road rather than be blinded by idiots. It says a lot when I'd prefer to be surrounded by motorists than fellow cyclists as at least they are more courteous.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Irrespective of why people get these lights, it's just plain rude to have them on full force on an off-road path. It's the illuminated bicycle equivalent of an SUV driver thinking it doesn't matter what others do, all you know is they'll get blinded first and you'll be on your merry way.
I've given a few verbal tickings off to people on the Innocent. At times you'd be forgiven for thinking the trains were back on the route the way the lights ominously beam up at you. Anyway, I don't think it's too much to expect people to dip the lights and slow down.
Posted 11 years ago #
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