CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Light wars

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  1. Dave
    Member

    I mentioned this on the 'equipment' topic but it might really be a conversation of its own - namely, bright and/or dim lights, and the conflict they provoke.

    Now that my new commute allows me to avoid the Roseburn path, I prefer to stick on road after dark. Why? Because there's just too much agro between the 'lit' and the 'vaguely lit'.

    I hasten to add that being genuinely dazzled is not what this is about - I'm just as likely as the next man to object if I'm being lasered at close quarters.

    But what really gets my goat is the way that many cyclists object to *well adjusted* bright lights, seemingly on principle alone. Almost universally these riders have equipped themselves with the most token of blinkies, which I wouldn't dare to ride with in Edinburgh traffic.

    Last winter when my girlfriend and I both rode out the path towards Fife, we would regularly get moaned at - but when I went ahead to compare, it seemed perfectly fine to me. This year I rode the path for the first couple of days after the clocks changed, then binned it for Leith Walk instead.

    If people choose to ride strictly by ambient light, that's fine by me - but what's with this desire to make everyone else do the same? We have the technology now to see where we're going without even needing to recharge more than once a week - shouldn't we be embracing it?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. Kim
    Member

    It really strange, I have noticed that other cyclist complain about well well adjusted bright lights, but never had a problem with drivers objecting to them. I have even had drivers say they liked them, as they could clearly see where I was. I really don't understand these peoples problem.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    I'm sure there are people who instinctively think 'light pollution', but I suspect there are cyclists who don't understand how to do *well adjusted* - or have lights that don't adjust easily.

    I know I've been surprised/dazzled a few times on Middle Meadow Walk where the ambient light is much higher than the (non-lit) Roseburn Path - so it's not just a question of eyes needing to adjust.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. Dave
    Member

    Aye, there is no doubt that you do get your eyeballs fried by some people.

    When we first got our lights, I was convinced they were too bright even to take on the road, but nobody has flashed at me yet over a year on. As a driver I vastly prefer bikes with big lights, it makes life so much easier.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  5. I'm running a lovely new Hope Vision 1 and it's as bright as a very bright thing. I've been very conscious of angling it down slightly though. Not had any complaints (mind you, not taken it on the cyclepaths yet).

    It's brilliant on the un-streetlit areas, such as tonight when I go round the south bit of Arthur's Seat to pop home via the Sheep Heid.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. SRD
    Moderator

    I was _very_ self-conscious on MMW tonight! But my lights definitely angle down, and I don't think they're that bright....But I really like the brightness heading across town and through the dodgy intersections...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. Kim
    Member

    Anth, do you often use that route? I was on a course last week and the trainer commented on seeing a cyclist with a very bright light on his way in that morning (round Arthur's Seat). He said he thought it was a motorbike at first and was surprised to see that it was a cyclist.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. spytfyre
    Member

    On the roseburn etc paths I find the streetlights provide me just enough visibility as the path is generally debris free but keep my LED lights on flash and aimed down, they are good at bouncing off street signs a good 200 yeards away so they must hurt the eyes. It does worry me the number of cyclists who have no lights whatsoever or cover their rear light with a mud guard or don't ring a bell to alert pedestrians of their approach.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. Hey Kim, not often on the road round that way - used to regularly commute in on the Innocent Path though. Got bored of it last week though and started taking different routes each morning!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. IronLung
    Member

    There's a great pair of lights made by Bell available in Asda which I think are amazing value. Front, 4xLED, £13, 4xAAA, steady or flash, great spread of light. Rear, triangular shaped multi-LED, £7, 2xAAA, steady or a variety of different flashing combinations, visible from afar.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. 559
    Member

    I object frequently to lights that are maladjusted or inappropriate for the Roseburn path.

    When setting lights two simple rules should be adhered to.
    1. Align lights slightly to your left
    2. Tilt lights to shine about 5m in front of you
    These will ensure a courteous journey.

    I note that some contributors compare cycle paths with roads, this is misleading in lighting terms.

    On roads the oncoming traffic is usually about 2 to 3m to your right (cycle paths 1m)

    Car lights are by law dipped and aligned slightly to their left.

    Whether the rider approaching you has no lights or little blinkies is of no importance. They are still entilted to complain if you dazzle them.

    If as cyclists we treat other users of a cycle path as we are often treated by motorists then, there is no point!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "When setting lights two simple rules should be adhered to.
    1. Align lights slightly to your left
    2. Tilt lights to shine about 5m in front of you
    These will ensure a courteous journey."

    Seems sensible to me

    thanks

    Posted 14 years ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    This string is taking a very sensible turn now. When cycling in unlit areas you want to be able to see the path thus a Hope Vision super duper dazzler helps you no end. When cycling in lit areas you want your rear end lit up like a christmas tree with lots of very cheap wee lights from ASDA so that motorists driving home on their regular route with their brains in autopilot actually see you. Of course if you have splashed large on the bobby dazzler you will want to use it all the time so follow 559's very sensible advice thus avoiding frying the retinas of those coming the other way.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  14. Dave
    Member

    To contrast my original point with 559's very sensible suggestions, I was once using my helmet mounted light (puncture necessitated using a different bike that I'd taken the bar mount off).

    Despite very deliberately actually looking at the verge to the left of my wheel, with no possible dazzling, I still got bawled at by two riders who felt I "shouldn't have bright lights". Both conspicuously had the sort of front lights that I might not even use as xmas tree decorations.

    Although it's possible they were both being dazzled by green reflections from the grass, I somewhat doubt it. It felt more like a complaint "on principle" (especially as I might pass perhaps 25 or more riders who feel the same light is not worth mentioning).

    As a recumbent rider I already bear the brunt of lights that people think they have pointed down... if I'm getting by, why can't they?

    It's no big deal - I just stay off the Roseburn path in the winter months. Which also saves on having to dodge suicidal commuters who insist on long head-on overtake attempts when I am descending the path at speed! I've only ever really wanted an airhorn for the Roseburn path ;-)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  15. Dave
    Member

    I guess a good analogy would be- I've never had a bell on any of my bikes (since I find it preferable just to say, "excuse me" if I have to). But there is certainly a sect amongst cyclists who think it's an outrage to ride without one.

    Does the same thing exist for bikes "which are trying to be cars" i.e. ride where street lighting is absent / insufficient? The day the clocks changed the street lights on the Roseburn path weren't on at all, but for me it was no problem. I did pass a few blinkie riders walking!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  16. spytfyre
    Member

    Ah yes, the airhorn - useful when the Ferry Road/Roseburn path is full of an entire school of kids at 3.50....
    I have a flashing light for being seen, I *need* a decent solid light to see bricks on the path where the streetlights are out

    Posted 14 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Wisdom of this thread included in new Spokesworker

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=188

    Posted 14 years ago #
  18. cb
    Member

    I passed a cyclist (coming towards me) on Middle Meadow Walk last night who had a red light on the front of their bike. Now that was confusing.
    They did have a smaller white light attached to the helmet which helped a bit, but not much.
    When I first saw them it looked like a bike going in my direction that had moved out to overtake something - I'm glad I didn't take their lead and do the same!

    The next bike I passed had no lights, which left me wondering: which is worse, a red front light, or no front light?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    This year's topic is head torches -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1583

    Posted 14 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    From LillyLyle on Twitter

    "
    @CyclingEdin The ultra-bright bluish LED lights on a double-direction cycle path are wicked, you have to lift your hand to shield your eyes!

    "

    Posted 14 years ago #
  21. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Just got home from work so I'm too tired to still be fuming, but if this was anyone from CCE, I'm sorry, but I'm going to say it anyway.

    The Union Canal is unlit at night, so naturally people will be using headlights on their bikes to see where they're going, and to spot all the unlit, unreflective pedestrians. We live in a world of little emergency blinking LED lights, some persisting halogen beams, and as Anth and Dave have ably demonstrated, very bright LEDs. That's fine and good, because we all like to light up what's in front because despite our eyes' ability to sensitise in low light conditions, we don't emit a nice handy glow like the little stars we stick to the ceilings of our little ones.

    But to the cyclist heading out of town along the towpath this evening, for crying out loud turn your superlaser deathray headlight off or point it somewhere other than straight ahead! As he approached, still a good 40 metres away, I was completely blinded, and the only thing I could do was hit the brakes and come to a dead stop, and cover my eyes. I was more polite in the event than I feel I should have been, but even so my exclamation elicited no response.

    The only information I could gather, while my retinas were burned away, was that it was a headlight approximately the size of the Lupine Betty 6. It was bloody arrogant.

    So my question is this: who (here or elsewhere) rides in the dark with two or more headlights, one set up to penetrate and illuminate, and one for visibility and grass verges? And with the ever increasing power of LED lights, when are manufacturers going to start including a dipped beam option and (B&M Cyo R excepted) decent lens shapes?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Arrellcat - I suggest that you start cycling with one of those old-fangled mirror-on-the-head contraptions that cartoon doctors always seem to have - turn the man's weapon against him!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  23. Smudge
    Member

    @Arellcat, sympathies, had a similar problem a week or so ago. I'm all for bright lights but some people are just downright rude/dangerous :-(
    Maybe we need to develop a superbright light for retaliation, only needs to run for a minute or two but enough to make the ignorant realise what it feels like... (cue evil scientist laugh!)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    "Maybe we need to develop a superbright light for retaliation"

    One of those red ones?

    That go with rifles??

    Posted 14 years ago #
  25. Smudge
    Member

    Well I couldn't possibly advocate using a laser as you really *could* damage someones eyes, however I do have access to one of these X0,000 candlepower spot beam lamps that people clip to riflescopes for night shooting, that could make someone very uncomfortable without actually doing them damage... ;-)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  26. Dave
    Member

    I'd suggest (if you dare) that crashing into someone who's blinding you on the canal towpath would be a memorable lesson.

    The simple solution would be to tax symmetric lights and rebate asymetric ones with the money raised. That would soon encourage manufacturers to offer both options (it's not rocket science - in fact it's literally school science).

    Posted 14 years ago #
  27. spitfire
    Member

    I run my lights pointing at the ground approx 1.5 metres ahead of the front wheel, the flashing cat eye is straight ahead for drivers to see me when on roads, I will more than likely be switching it off when on the roseburn path in total darkness so save oncoming cyclists the pleasure

    Posted 14 years ago #
  28. Dave
    Member

    I rode through the Meadows the other day without light, just for an experiment. It was quite interesting, think I may plump for a tiny knogg blinkie though to avoid the disapproving glares!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  29. spitfire
    Member

    *glare*

    Posted 14 years ago #
  30. Dave
    Member

    Well, it's a bit different for me anyway. As I'm invisible, I can only conclude that my lights give out 'invisible photons' and therefore turning them off makes no difference ;-)

    Posted 14 years ago #

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