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Hermiston Village

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Started 10 years ago by pjmatthews
Latest reply from bladteth

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pjmatthews
Member

I regularly use the Edinburgh Park - Gogar Station Road - Hermiston Village - A71 Toucan crossing - Riccarton Campus cycle route, as I'm aware many other's do.

Over on twitter, I've been moaning about the new railing chicane the council have put in on the path from Hermiston Village to the toucan crossing:
https://twitter.com/urbaneprofessor/status/409972219259801601
As with all other cyclists I now have to get off my bike and push it through this barrier.

From protracted email discussion with the Council about this and the pointless "give way" markings put in over the summer, all this is the result of complaints by the Hermiston Village Residents' Action Group who complain that cyclists whizz down the path and hit pedestrians coming from the play park next to the path.

Basically, I'm willing to take this further and get these railings removed, but I want to know if anyone else here feels this strongly about them, particularly those who also use this path daily? I could go on, but I won't...

Posted 10 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Struggling to find Hermiston Village on Google. Do you mean the down hill on Gogor station Road?

Have you asked the council how many children have been hit and how many incidents have been reported in the past? Freedom of Info question? I have a feeling there is always a small minority of 'do gooders' who imagine something awful might happen and call for structural changes to be done, without any actual evidential cause. I think Councils should employ more evidential investigations into the number of 'incidents' before spending lots of money on masses of gates/barriers/white paint/signage. They could save lots of money in the cash strapped age.

You could also look at it this way - You are asking the council to spend more money to remove the barriers just to save yourself how long on your commute? 20 seconds at most? How much is your time actually worth over the 10 years you might spend cycling that route? Over 10 years I calculate you'd waste ~14 hours getting off and on if the 20 seconds estimate if correct?

Posted 10 years ago #
cb
Member

Here?:

http://goo.gl/maps/SpH32

(An aside: Noticed on OSM that someone has labelled the nearby chicken farm as 'Stinkin Chickin Farm')

Posted 10 years ago #
pjmatthews
Member

cb - that's the exact place.

DaveC - your point is exactly why I'm tempted to let this one lie, but there is a point of principle here. They wouldn't put a chicane on the A71 and expect drivers to get out and push their car around. This double-standard has been explained to me in exactly that way in a letter from the Council when I asked why their wasn't a proper bike crossing on Gogar Station Road and why the lights at the toucan over the A71 favour motorists over everyone else.

Posted 10 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

@davec it's not just about actual incidents, but also if people are finding that space difficult to manoeuvre.

It's the knee-jerk reaction of chicane implementation that I object to.

Posted 10 years ago #
fimm
Member

Could you get a wheelchair/large buggy/mobility scooter/tandem/other non-standard bike through there? If not, then it isn't just a problem for cyclists...

Someone on here called them anti-disablity barriers, which makes the point rather well...

Edited to add: see also the discussion in the last two pages of this thread: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2463&page=3

Posted 10 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Fair enough, I suppose its down to how much you want to push it.

There are similarities with small country lanes which are crossed by motorways or dual carrageways. As old A roads they connected but when the upgrade happens they are closed off and die. I can point to a few if you want examples. I suppose people complained at the time but I've yet to see them reconnected.

I can see both sides though, as a cyclists I want to cycle unimpeded, and loosing priority does break your rhythm when cycling. But as a parent of young children I know they don't always look around them when they're moving around, whether it be running in the supermarket or leaving a playground for home. As this path is aimed at users of the Riccarton Campus, that can include workers and students. I have personally experienced most of society cycling around Edinburgh and some people cycle like they drive. They assuming they can bulldoze through conjested pinch points giving abusive verbal back when you offer any 'advice'. The typical example is when two cyclists approach one another where a parent is walking their child to school on the NEPN. I see a lot of cyclists cross to the other side of the path and plough through, when, if in a car they'd slow and wait behind the slower moving traffic until it was clear to pass. Its for these reasons I imagine local parents would want to limit cyclists as they travel through their small village. As an after thought, have you considered the barrier may be also to stop children running out into the busy A71? Perhaps this is another reason it was installed*

* I can't claim to know the junction as I usually travel over the roundabout, as I cycle through this route outside peak times.

Good luck what ever you decide to do. Dave C

Posted 10 years ago #
pjmatthews
Member

Thanks for the link fimm.

And DaveC - I accept their might be some conflict as I've almost had a bump with a cyclist coming down the path myself, but I want to see well designed infrastructure that manages conflict well, not railings.

The path is actually mainly used by people commuting down to Edinburgh Park and the Gyle in my experience.

Will definitely pick on the broader accessibility point as well.

Posted 10 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

@PJMatthews it might be worth a FOI request to find out how many persons have been injured there and how many complaints were made, to justify the expense of this questionable infrastructure.

Posted 10 years ago #
duncans
Member

I've been that way, but avoid it; it's narrow, conflicted, badly designed, not fit for purpose for commuting. The road is preferable.

Posted 10 years ago #
neddie
Member

I'm not sure why people who have children would choose to live right next to a busy dual-carriageway. They must love their cars, I mean why else would you live so close to the bypass and the 40+mph A71?

A colleague of mine used to live in Hermiston Village. He said that at least once a year he'd get someone dripping with blood knocking on his door at 3am, asking to use the phone, after they'd had a smash. Sounds absolutely horrific. I think that's the reason they moved away!

Surely cyclists are the least of their worries...

Posted 10 years ago #
smsm1
Member

After you have reported an issue on Cyclescape you can display the collision STATS19 open data by clicking the little layer icon on the top right of the map, and you'll get a series of circles come up, that you can click for more info.

You can also look at http://map.itoworld.com/ (though that doesn't yet cover the most recent 2 years of data.

Posted 10 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

You might want to ask the council why the chicane doesn't meet the standards set out in Cycling by Design - see paragraph 6.5.2:

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/strategy-and-research/publications-and-consultations/j185500-06.htm#accesscontrols

This is design guidance from the Scottish Government and, while not an actual legal requirement, is considered best practice.

Posted 10 years ago #
gembo
Member

Never seen anyone in the swing park

The mn who lives on the corner used to put slow down signs out

If they moved the pedestrian crossing up to the north gate that would allow easy crossing of A71 and gentle access to hermiston going in the direction of travel rather than perpendicular.

RLS unfinished novel Weir of Hermiston

John Martyn album Weird of Hermiston.

The road from Edinburgh to Kilmarnock used to run through the village. The new A71 made life less pleasant for the houses south of the original road, particularly as they were generally built with their windows facing south over open country tht became the new A71. Various villages have been badly b.ighted by roads. I always feel Carlops would be a prettier place but for the regular stream of lorries

Posted 10 years ago #
Charterhall
Member

The new railings are a complete pita. Just about ridable on my work bike but certainly not with a tandem or trailer. Another fine example of the anti cycling infrastructure so beloved of those in power in Scotland.
And whilst on the subject, heading north, having manoevred around the new infrastructure and waited for hours for the green man to come on to cross the A71, how then is the cyclist supposed to continue north to the roundabout ? The cycle lane only provides the option of turning right into the HW campus and the road is one way southbound only. I end up having to ride on the pavement to join the road exiting HW from the right at the traffic lights. I did try once going through the park and ride car park on the left, once was enough.

Posted 10 years ago #
Charterhall
Member

Edit - keen observers would have noticed that I have North and South the wrong way around in the above. Good job I'm not a goose.

Posted 10 years ago #
Charterhall
Member

And contrast the ease with which residents can petition the council to address a perceived risk of cycle speed with the efforts required to persuade them to address the far less debatable and far more life threatening issues of motoring speed.

Posted 10 years ago #
AKen
Member

I have some sympathy with the residents of Hermiston here. The cycle access to the toucan crossing has poor visibility and people taking it too fast can be a problem. However, it sounds like what has been put in place is excessive.

And whilst on the subject, heading north, having manoevred around the new infrastructure and waited for hours for the green man to come on to cross the A71, how then is the cyclist supposed to continue north to the roundabout

I think whoever designed this was given a brief of connecting a route to the Heriot-Watt campus. The notion that people might want to go in other directions was presumably outwith their remit so they never considered it.

Posted 10 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

@Charterhall perhaps your the albatros who regularly turns up off the Western Isles year on year?

Posted 10 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

It is not outwith the bounds of our scientific and engineering abilities to create a mutually agreeable solution - there's no reason why this quiet little backwater can't work when areas like the Meadows and Harrison Park do.

Posted 10 years ago #
pjmatthews
Member

Thanks for all the input, I think I will persist in getting this redesigned, if nothing else.

And @charterhall, depending on where you're going, feel free to use the Heriot-Watt campus. It is open to the public 24-7 and has quite a few safe routes south.

Posted 10 years ago #
Charterhall
Member

Thanks pj, but that's my point, I don't want to divert off through HW, I want to go straight on to join Riccarton Mains Road before heading off up Donkey Lane.

Posted 10 years ago #
gembo
Member

I went down there this morning. No problem. The man who lives in the house is old and fed up with cyclists going too fast in his mind when he is trying to empty the bin etc. the barriers require slowing, foot down and then round. I have never seen a tandem or a trailer down that way but can see they might have issues. Fr the rest of us, my view is that there are bigger things to get upset about. I am just saying...

Posted 10 years ago #
Charterhall
Member

And I hope they don't have the cheek to charge the cost of this anti cycling measure to any sort of cycling budget

Posted 10 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"fed up with cyclists going too fast"

It's ages since I was at the area, but assuming that the recent changes have anything to do with the residents it would certainly be in sharp contrast to the interest of CEC and the police in speeding cars!

Also the increasing number of areas where CEC seems 'happy' to 'design in' potential conflict between pedestrians and cyclists is more worrying - bottom of The Mound, N St. A. St. etc. - and, potentially, top of Gifford Park. (Monday last day for comments.)

Posted 10 years ago #
pjmatthews
Member

Thanks everyone for your input. I've picked up on a lot of the points made and sent the following, with Councillor Lesley Hinds cc'd into the email:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12D-D8TypVSpBSV6Nkh45prhq_8ED8NoyxQwAkuFQrh4/edit?usp=sharing

Posted 10 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

if they are to have chicanes, they should be well back from the road, and differently designed.

was chatting a guy from Dundee last night who pursued his council vigorously on this and says that now they put them in correctly rather than deal with him after!

NB: this is also another case of where consulting 'residents' but not users is problematic. was the University involved in the consultation? did they contact their Bike user group? etc

Posted 10 years ago #
pjmatthews
Member

@SRD the point about consultation has been raised already and half-answered by the Council...

Posted 10 years ago #
HankChief
Member

I've been following this thread as a owner of a tandem. I don't use the particular crossing but I understand the need to have crossing that is useable for all types of cycles.

I already have to modify my routes to avoid the worse of the anti-disability gates.

When my kids start at school in the summer my commute will change and take me through the Broomhouse Rd / Dovecot Rd cut trough. Now I can just about get through it at the moment (with some faffing) but once my daughter moves onto a tag-a-long at the back of the tandem that route will be impassable to me pushing me on to much busier roads.

So I'm about to start a campaign to the Council for it to be modified. Wish me luck. t

Posted 10 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Wish me luck"

Do you need it?

You have a certain track record...

Persistence pays.

Posted 10 years ago #

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