No bins there this morning....
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Meadows-Innocent consultation (and subsequent building & use)
(485 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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@Wilmington's Cow "Coming from the west I can't see why you'd cross onto the short section to the lights, to hit those and wait to get out, when you could ride up to the junction, and probably get a break in the traffic more quickly"...
Given the whole rationale of the totality of this cycle route, as being "family friendly", I can see that parents with children will use what they see as the safest way across, i.e. waiting for whatever lights are available.
I doubt the bins will go back until the mural is painted - and then what, a grand opening with Ms Hinds and others on their bikes cycling along it with helmented and hi-vizzed kids for a photo-op?
At some point they'll get the parking signs back up as well, I hope. On Buccleuch Street the carriageway painted cycle lane has become a de facto parking lane for Snax and others. I think the rationale must be "there's a new segregated lane in there, so there's no harm in parking in the cycle lane out here."
Posted 9 years ago # -
I wondered if the on-road cycle lane might be removed altogether....?
You're right on the family route, and for marshalling kids, and those with less experience, crossing at the lights makes more sense, true. It's just that shift to get to the lights isn't in itself a massively safe exercise.
And yeah, I suspect there will be a photo op opening of the route, but honestly I've no problem with that if it publicises the route - otherwise how are those not in the know going to find out? Get the word out there, if the cyclists are wearing hi-viz and helmets, meh.
Posted 9 years ago # -
At least LH ignores the hi-viz/helmet 'normality' -
Posted 9 years ago # -
So, just walked the route Innocent to Meadows at lunchtime today, and had a good natter with the lady that organised the mural - in paint-spattered dungarees and brush in hand (her, not me). As she pointed out, bins were back at the top of Gifford Park before the bollards, but those are the Gifford Park residential bins that have been sitting further along towards Buccleuch Street. The bins currently coned off on Clerk Street are the ones that will likely go back, though she said they were lobbying the cooncil to relocate them away from the passage. Not sure how that will work, though.
But it's all looking good :) And I saw people on each stretch today. Yesterday I saw a dad and two kids cross over from the meadows and cycle along before turning up Gifford Park. The older boy was bumping up and down from the pavement to the cycle track so I guess the angled kerb is working ok.
Posted 9 years ago # -
A neighbour / friend of mine was posting pictures of the route on Facebook last night. She trains guide dogs, and says the tactiles around the route are incredibly confusing (and there are big metal boxes that are in the middle of the walking bit with no warning).
I suggested now was the time to contact the council about it.
Last night I also saw a picture of a cycle lane in Barcelona, taken by our divisive friend Mikael Colville-Anderson. It was wide, two way, in a central reservation so with no give ways to side traffic, and hard segregated with high rubber strips. And a few international cycle campaigners were explaining why it was really no good.
I have to admit, I was looking on enviously...
Posted 9 years ago # -
"and there are big metal boxes that are in the middle of the walking bit with no warning"
Posted 9 years ago # -
I don't begin to understand this -
Posted 9 years ago # -
There's an even worse example of two big boxes on the walking bit, can't find a pic just now though. And yes, that bit of tactile seemed very odd.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Wilmington's Cow, not having seen your friend's photos, are the big boxes those posts with the controls, or something else?
As for tactile paving, I've never seen a comprehensive explanation of how they are supposed to work, but then neither have the contractors, apparently!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Found the pic, these boxes:
Basically with the confusing tactiles around the crossing, the slight kerb to the cyclepath, the junction, and the narrowed pavement, these are basically a nightmare for blind people.
Posted 9 years ago # -
And just cos, this is the latest guide dog recruit meeting our cat (it met the chickens a few days later).
Posted 9 years ago # -
@WC: doesn't that kind of photo usually come with a warning? Cuteness overload. I live near the Guide Dogs training centre and see loads of these wee guys. Always make me smile.
How did the dog/cat meeting go? We've currently got my brother's dogs staying with us, which requires some physical barriers in place to keep an excitable collie away from a slightly grumpy tabby.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The pup was exceedingly well behaved - intrigued, but then the excitement caught up and she slumped asleep. The cat was 'curious'. Keeping her distance for the most part (she's met a couple of dogs, and doesn't like them), but seemed to realise this was a young 'un.
In the garden with the chooks the pup did the same slump, at which point the cat jumped on the garden table above her and just stared and sniffed as far as she'd dare lean over.
She's a teeny cat (not really noticeable from the pic) but chases foxes out of the garden, so she's got some nous around canines.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Okay, we're on to dogs and cats, so I guess there really is nothing left to pick over here! Only to say the Cooncil should prioritise accessibility issues, so your friend should get on to them about this if she hasn't already. Maybe RNIB can help get their attention: http://www.rnib.org.uk/scotland/contact-rnib-scotland
Posted 9 years ago # -
Anyway, just been perusing the guidance manual for tactile paving (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-the-use-of-tactile-paving-surfaces) and wonder if RNIB or other local orgs/people have been consulted on this project. Just walked round it again today and it is a real mish-mash of tactiles - as far as I can tell! Just going to drop RNIB scotland a line to ask if they have seen the project and if not they might want to pop along and assess it.
Posted 9 years ago # -
It's RNIB my neighbour trains the dogs for :) (I think)
I'll bet you're right and they've never been consulted.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I would be genuinely interested in RNIB Scotland's take on tactiles. My guess, on absolutely zero evidence, is that apart from the blister type at kerbs, and the corduroy type at hazards (stairs etc), other tactiles aren't of particular benefit to the partially sighted. I could be 100% wrong about that!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Art imitates Life
Posted 9 years ago # -
I've forced myself to use the whole (yet unsignalled) thing a couple of times now. I'm noticing the bumpiness of the St. Leonardsy bit less, in favour of consternation at the tightness of the turn into it - it has the same sort of feeling as navigating either the Hope Lane or Crawford Bridge chicanes with two panniers or a childseat, despite there being no gates. No reason why that end of the path can't be flared out, which would also make it more accessible to people heading onto it from the main road. Also very cramped-feeling at the crossing. Entry to Rankeillor isn't bad (from the crossing - rubbish if you're going along St Leonards and want to turn left onto it), and it feels calmer going along it just knowing that half of the ends are blocked-off. Gifford Park is unrecogniseable, but the very-high-allegedly-dropped kerb back onto the segregated path is worse than the bump onto South Meadow Walk from Argyle Street used to be before the remodelling.
Posted 9 years ago # -
We took the Gifford Park shortcut to review the artwork on Saturday. Had a chat with the artist about the merits of being transported home from the pub by cargo bike. It was first test run of the Follow Me tandem on this bike so at 3.5 metres we had to take up the full path and quite a bit of road when exiting off the two-segregated stretch into the traffic on Buccleuch St.
Posted 9 years ago # -
o reason why that end of the path can't be flared ou
I've often wondered why road designers insist on cycle crossings at 90 degrees to roads, 45 or even 60 would be so much more useful, given that right-angled turns are extremely difficult on a bike. I seem to recall anecdotally from discussions of the Meadows - Innocent consultations that Edinburgh is entirely opposed to even considering anything other than 90 degrees for crossings.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Not quite the same but there is the diagonal crossing at KB so perhaps shows that there is some appetite for doing things differently.
Posted 9 years ago # -
ah, yes I can see the one you mean. If it can be done there, why not elsewhere?
A - think it has something to do with that crossing being in the middle of a junction, rather than just across a road.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Pondering a video critique, and roping in some Copenhagen bods to film 'similar' facilities over there to compare 'solutions'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I seem to recall anecdotally...that Edinburgh is entirely opposed to even considering anything other than 90 degrees for crossings.
Very many students make a long diagonal crossing of the junction at Colinton Road / Craiglockhart Avenue / Glenlockhart Road in the morning when walking to lectures at Napier. There's no provision at all for that kind of desire line, but no-one is going to stand around for two whole cycles of the traffic lights just to use the crossings as designed.
Recall also that the level crossing of the tram route ar Bankhead Drive was originally designed as 60 degrees. This was changed - for good reasons - to 90 degrees in order to force peds and cyclists to look in both directions. A slant crossing that is unsignalled favours sightlines in one direction, leading to laziness and risk.
The problem is that CEC appears to be treating cycle traffic as being no different from pedestrian traffic in terms of its manoeuverability. In fact, cyclists are simply thought of as pedestrians with wheels. During the consultation I was pressing for slant signalled crossings precisely for this reason. Weezee's example is very similar to what I've already experienced trying out parts of the route with the torpedo.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Used it twice today so far, and something struck me today (as an idea, not literally).
The crossing of Clerk Street, they've set up temporary pedestrian lights. At the position of the old lights. Why on earth haven't they been set up at the new crossing given, as there are no barriers etc, pedestrians and cyclists are definitely taking advantage of the new route.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Yes, that puzzles me too. All the light poles, lights etc. are in place and wired up, presumably someone programmes the lights and throws a switch. What are they waiting for? Lots of people crossing the Buccleuch Street junction as well.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Other crossings, in the past, have had to wait MONTHS for Scottish Power to connect something or other!
Posted 9 years ago # -
But at the very least they could presumably put the temporary crossing lights at the new crossing?
Posted 9 years ago #
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