CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Edinburgh Waverley Station: Car and taxi ban comes into force

(432 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from crowriver

  1. achilles3001
    Member

    Possibly an opportunity for someone to send him a photo of how congested the walkways get and ask why they can't fit a cycle lane on one of the ramps?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. neddie
    Member

    So in order to do a terrorist attack now, one only needs to fake up a delivery van, pack it full of fertiliser and off to the shops. Marvellous 'thinking' from the anti terror brigade.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. Duncan
    Member

    A letter from Colin Keir MSP in response to my complaint about the ban on cycle access on the ramps at Waverley.
    Apparently it's to protect cyclists from delivery vans!
    Waverley is 'now more accessible than ever'...
    Read it here: http://maclarens.org/cycling/Waverley_access0001.pdf

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. acsimpson
    Member

    Wow, that's a long winded way of saying "thanks for your letter I'm not going to do anything about it."

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. Arellcat
    Moderator

    …it is now more accessible than ever before…"

    In 'accessible' terms, it almost certainly is. Waverley's never had it so good for lifts and escalators. But in 'general access' terms it certainly isn't better than before, because NR has restricted the ease of access for everyone else.

    If the north ramp is to be used for deliveries, the south ramp can be used by pedestrians and cyclists. I suspect that the amount of money spent on the concertina-style rising barriers is leaving a bit of a bad taste in NR's mouth.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "I suspect that the amount of money spent on the concertina-style rising barriers is leaving a bit of a bad taste in NR's mouth"

    I suspect they will have hardly noticed.

    Though they may be trying to get the money back from whoever supplied/installed the barriers system - it was hardly reliable!

    It should also 're-deploy/educate' all those responsible for the whole saga from 'we have to close the station before the Olympics for security reasons' onwards.

    It's a shame/scandal that Transport Scotland/SG, which largely funds NRS, is so disinterested.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    Hmm. There's some missing logic from these statements:

    "The closure of the south ramp has necessitated the use of the north ramp for deliveries via transit and long wheel base vans throughout the day. "

    Er, why, exactly? Why can't delivery vans use the south ramp and the loading bay to the rear of the old ticket hall?

    "While we concentrate most of our deliveries to the station prior to peak time travel, the only access through which it is feasible to do this during the day is via north ramp. Looking ahead, the station team will look at other options to improve the station delivery process..."

    Again, why is it only feasible to use the north ramp? No reason is given.

    I think this must be interrogated. I have my suspicions as to the reasons, but it will clearly be necessary to force these out of Network Rail.

    I suspect that the amount of money spent on the concertina-style rising barriers is leaving a bit of a bad taste in NR's mouth.

    I don't think it's the money, I think it's the fact a pedestrian was killed by a confused and panicky motorist, and the subsequent media furore. That's why we've ended up with stupid crash barriers everywhere.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. PS
    Member

    "The closure of the south ramp has necessitated the use of the north ramp for deliveries via transit and long wheel base vans throughout the day. "

    Do they have to move those temporary crowd control barriers at the bottom of the north ramp every time they have a delivery? If so, it must be chaos on the concourse. A long wheel base van must surely struggle to turn round in that confined space.

    Can only assume that they're refusing to use the south ramp for this because it sets a precedent for vehicles using the ramp.

    Has anyone tried cycling down the otherwise empty and unused south ramp? Does it set off a klaxon and the sudden appearance of orange hi-viz-clad NR workers?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. Instography
    Member

    I cycle down it every time. Have to get off to go under the barrier but I just get on and roll down the hill practising what I'm going to say if anyone says anything. But so far I've been watched by a number of staff going round the barrier at the ticket machines and lifting my bike over with not a word exchanged.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. Duncan
    Member

    A comparison that struck me recently...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. Dave
    Member

    It strikes me that an evening rush hour (or Festival?) fact-finding trip walking a large number of bikes down the pavement on the south ramp might be quite interesting. Network Rail just assured me there was ample space, after all.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. Instography
    Member

    It's horrible. I walked down it once and you're just in everyone's way. I reckon I'm doing everyone a favour by ignoring their ban and riding down the ramp.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. Greenroofer
    Member

    Here's what NR responded to Cllr Mark McInnes when he wrote to them on my behalf:

    "With reference to cyclists,there have been numerous improvements to our facilities for cyclists at Waverley and we will look at where we can continue to do this wherever we can within the station footprint. Cyclists remain valued, and we will continue to support them and encourage their support for the difficult decisions we have had to take.

    Following the removal of all public vehicles, including taxis, from Waverley Station south ramp on Monday 2 June, it has been become necessary to change the usage of the north ramp.

    The closure of the south ramp has necessitated the use of the north ramp for deliveries via transit and long wheel base vans throughout the day. As a result, we can no longer permit passengers and cycles to use the roadway. The turning circle has been fenced off to prevent pedestrians and cyclists from being put at risk by vans manoeuvring while making deliveries. Deliveries are vital to allow station shops to continue to trade. While we concentrate most of our deliveries to the station prior to peak time travel, the only access through which it is feasible to do this during the day is via north ramp. Looking ahead, the station team will look at other options to improve the station delivery process, however, in the mean time all cyclists should dismount before walking into the station with their bikes.

    New cycle racks have been installed on the west side of the station, near the north ramp to minimise inconvenience to cyclists. We are confident that there is adequate space for all station users requiring access to Waverley Bridge via the pedestrian ramp

    Should you wish to report a new enquiry please call the Network Rail National Helpline on 08457 11 41 41."

    When I said that I though this was a lame response, he went back to them and they responded with the verbal equivalent of a Gallic shrug.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

  15. Duncan
    Member

    Hi,

    I got the same stock answer when I wrote to ask why the ramps have been closed to cyclists... You get the feeling no-one is really listening, just churning out stock responses. Very depressing. Here's what I got:

    Thank you for your email below regarding the recent changes of access at Edinburgh Waverley station. All your comments have been passed to our senior managers.

    Waverley Station was the last Network Rail managed station to allow vehicles access to the concourse. We recognise that Waverley is situated in a location which makes access challenging consequently the station now has three entrances to the station which are fully accessible. Lifts provide step free access to and from Princes Street, Market Street and the drop off area at Calton Road.

    With reference to cyclists, there have been numerous improvements to our facilities for cyclists at Waverley and we will look at where we can continue to do this wherever we can within the station footprint. Cyclists remain valued, and we will continue to support them and encourage their support for the difficult decisions we have had to take.

    Following the removal of all public vehicles, including taxis, from Waverley Station south ramp on Monday 2 June, it has been become necessary to change the usage of the north ramp.

    The closure of the south ramp has necessitated the use of the north ramp for deliveries via transit and long wheel base vans throughout the day. As a result, we can no longer permit passengers and cycles to use the roadway. The turning circle has been fenced off to prevent pedestrians and cyclists from being put at risk by vans manoeuvring while making deliveries. Deliveries are vital to allow station shops to continue to trade. While we concentrate most of our deliveries to the station prior to peak time travel, the only access through which it is feasible to do this during the day is via north ramp. Looking ahead, the station team will look at other options to improve the station delivery process, however, in the mean time all cyclists should dismount before walking into the station with their bikes.

    New cycle racks have been installed on the west side of the station, near the north ramp to minimise inconvenience to cyclists. We are confident that there is adequate space for all station users requiring access to Waverley Bridge via the pedestrian ramp.

    We have also recently improved the signage around the station e.g new signage cubes, height restrictor and “no unauthorised vehicle” signs which we hope will assist users of the station.

    I trust this information is useful and addresses your enquiry. Should you wish to report a new enquiry please call the Network Rail National Helpline on 08457 11 41 41.

    Regards

    Evelyn Brown

    Community Relations Manager, Scotland

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. dougal
    Member

    I'm at a loss to explain how cycle racks "minimise the inconvenience to cyclists" if you can't actually cycle to/from them.

    Will they be installing short-stay car parks inside the station now that they've banned car access, too? ;-)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. gembo
    Member

    FortunAtely cyclists can use three other entrances to the station whereas cars can't do that.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. dougal
    Member

    You can't cycle in the station so drivers have as much ability to use those entrances as cyclists. They're just pedestrian entrances.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. gembo
    Member

    You can push your bike through the station so you can take your bike into the station in a way that you cannot take your car into the station. Hundreds of people do it every day to take a train with their bike. Or come from some other destination with their bike

    You cannot skateboard in the station either

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. Instography
    Member

    I've still not had any difficulty cycling down the North ramp and hoiking my bike over the fence at the ticket machines.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    "and hoiking my bike over the fence"

    But you should have to!

    Or be expected to!!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  22. Instography
    Member

    No, I agree. It's absurd and their tale of safety and deliveries is patent nonsense since the could easily have the ramp open for bikes most of the time and close it and the turning circle when they must have lorries in.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  23. kenny
    Member

    The turning circle barriers were mysteriously not there at all last Sunday 31st August at about 19:00 when I got in from N.Berwick. Made a much more enjoyable and safer ride out of the station up the north ramp than trying to get kids to push their bikes up the narrow footpath without hitting any pedestrians.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  24. Min
    Member

    Yes, that tiny narrow pavement is ridiculous.

    And Insto, to be fair you are a big tough looking guy. There probably aren't that many people who would try to stop you!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    Such a waste of space -

    Posted 9 years ago #
  26. Instography
    Member

    @min
    True. I probably wouldn't challenge me either but there's never been anyone there to look twice and decide against it. And increasingly the barriers at the top are open and someone has made a gap at the bottom. Like the whole idea is withering away.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  27. Ed1
    Member

    Although this is not good for cyclists, for a national body (network rail basically an arm of government controlled by statute) I think this is not great in respect to the Equality act. Edinburgh Waverley is a hub, for the elderly, disabled or wheel chairs users who may have relied on taxi access this change could be quite a barrier to access.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  28. Min
    Member

    Yes Mr Instography sir! ;-)

    You did say you get watched by staff further up though so I just assumed they were not up for the challenge whereas if I had tried it they would be on me like a pack of jack russels.

    I guess it doesn't serve any purpose to prevent people cycling down there, even for the most industrious jobsworth.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  29. Instography
    Member

    That's true. There's the been guys at the ticket machines who've glanced and gone back to their machine. Can't say I ever felt they were making a decision.

    You should just do it. It's so ridiculous that it really should be ignored or it would be ripe for one of those photo opps with a line of sad-faced cyclists standing on the wrong side of the barrier asking why they've been banned.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    So much for security!

    Wide open this afternoon

    Don't know how long for.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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