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Date for POP 3

(135 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by sallyhinch
  • Latest reply from ARobComp

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  1. sallyhinch
    Member

    We have a problem with the date of the next POP. We were going to go for Sunday the 27th April, but that clashes with the Great Edinburgh Run (we did ask back in autumn but have only found this out now). Other weekends around the end of April/beginning of May are problematic with bank holidays, Easter, and so on.

    So we have a problem. We have some options too:

    1. we can try and hold it on the Saturday (26th April). The original POP was held on a Saturday and the Saturday/Sunday thing has been the subject of much debate here last year. Pros: easier for people to get to Edinburgh, possibly more impact on the day. Cons: harder (maybe even impossible) to get permission for our chosen route, possibly less press coverage.

    2. We can push it back into May although none of the dates which are free are ideal. One which is free, May 18th would mean it was on the same weekend as the Space For Cycling rides being held to coincide with local elections in England (but other than European elections there are none in Scotland). Unfortunately this is the Victoria Day holiday in Edinburgh which isn't ideal. Also cyclists seem to be busy in May. Apparently there's not many free Sundays in June

    3. WE can push it back even further - e.g end of August / September. This fits better with the political calendar / budget cycle etc. but risks getting caught up in the referendum. Or perhaps that's also a positive? After all, we're deciding what kind of Scotland we want to see

    4. Something else we haven't thought of yet. Ideas?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. Kenny
    Member

    What is wrong with June? Schools are still in, thus many people are not away on their hols yet, hence greater chance of larger turnout?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. sallyhinch
    Member

    My understanding is that there are already things going on all the Sundays in June. But if not, that would be an option too

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. Kenny
    Member

    I'd assume there will pretty much be something happening all the Sundays throughout the summer months. I'd be wary, personally, of going for a date too near to the referendum just because I can't imagine you will get any media attention at that time.

    What about 25th May? It's a bank holiday, but many places in Edinburgh don't take that day and instead take Victoria day, and thus most places are generally open, unless you're a financial institution. Hence people might be less inclined to be away for the weekend.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. sallyhinch
    Member

    True, but the rest of Scotland doesn't take Victoria Day. (Scottish bank holidays are so confusing) We did notice the impact of Victoria Day last year; I'd expect the May Bank Holiday to have an even greater effect.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. Kenny
    Member

    Indeed. Victoria is not a bank holiday, it is merely a local Edinburgh holiday, thus other places will not take it. Spring bank holiday (25-May) *is* a bank holiday, is rarely taken in Edinburgh, but may be taken by more businesses outwith Edinburgh since they don't have a local holiday the week before. It's some 20 years since I moved to Edinburgh so I'm not able to recall what we did up north.

    So, on that basis, avoiding May is probably a wise plan since almost every Monday is a holiday. July and the first half of August is school holidays, hence lots of people will be away, especially the first 2 weeks of July when holidays are cheaper. With that in mind, June does seem to me to have the best options, so maybe it's a case of looking to see what is on each of the Sundays in June and deciding which events are least likely to pull people away from POP3?

    Oh - another reason to avoid July is it regularly pisses down with rain for a few days, really heavily, during which people forget that it does this every year and make out it's really unusual weather for July. But then again, this is Scotland, so you cannae guarantee the weather on any day.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. steveo
    Member

    Do the Saturday and stuff the man, man...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. MeepMeep
    Member

    I'm with Steveo on this one. Last year's PoP seemed to lack some of the impact that we had the year before when it was held on the Saturday.

    What were the main impacts to PoP's preferred route when a Saturday was discussed with regards to last year's event?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. sallyhinch
    Member

    Basically, the only routes they were prepared to contemplate were round places like Johnstone Terrace and the Grassmarket, which would have ruled it out for kids on bikes and hid the whole thing away. However, it may be that because we were good about leaving gaps for traffic to get through and because there was no traffic chaos (that I know of) that they might look more leniently on a Saturday date.

    Holding it without permission and stuffing the man would make it harder for people to bring kids, I think, and turn it more into a critical mass. We only got away with it the first time because they (and we) had absolutely no idea how many people would turn up

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. steveo
    Member

    I understand your predicament but this year, unlike last, there are no Sunday options for one reason or another. So either you push it late into the year which is probably fine, though my gut feel is the attendance might suffer due to people doing other things in summer, or you stuff the man. It would be a crying shame if the people felt they were unable to bring their kids though unless we’re being kettled I’m not sure why.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. wingpig
    Member

    Go distributed? Have no single huge procession or start point but a single end point and approximate time of arrival? As with last year, local mostly-self-organised feeders could help encourage people not keen on riding alone along. Granted, given the size of some of the feeder rides last year some of these processions could be quite big but they'd not all be so big as to indicate road closures.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. Roibeard
    Member

    Settle for the date (or choose between the dates) that the Council/Lothian Buses will allow - it's the only option if you don't wish to be kettled.

    In Edinburgh, protest is only allowed when it's convenient.

    Robert

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. steveo
    Member

    A thousand drivers go out in their cars its called "rush hour" a thousand cyclist go out on their bikes its a protest...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    It's a tricky call, but maybe it is time to take steveo's approach? Gather on the Meadows and then proceed as normal traffic - not as a marshaled demo - to Holyrood.

    There's a limit to what mild-mannered middle class protest can achieve, and PoP is so good natured, so keen to be seen as constructive that in an odd way, you sometimes feel that we make ourselves too easy to dismiss.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. tammytroot
    Member

    How sad that such a good natured, well behaved demo which might cause some minor traffic disruption on a very few roads for less than a couple of hours should come up against such officious officialdom
    "Basically, the only routes they were prepared to contemplate were round places like Johnstone Terrace and the Grassmarket, which would have ruled it out for kids on bikes and hid the whole thing away. "
    I would not class myself as any kind of militant but, stuff like this makes me think sod em, why seek permission at all? I have enjoyed the last 2 POPs but, if we are going to be micro managed as if we are some kind of subversive threat to the country, then maybe we should flex our muscle more agressively.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    I don't think holding the procession without permission is really an option: then we might face police action and possible arrest. Perhaps instead of a procession it just turns into a demo outside the Parliament? The procession only lasts a few minutes anyway, most of the time is spent either queuing at the Meadows or gathered for the speeches at the end.

    The procession in the first year did give the impression that cyclists had (briefly) taken over the city, but last year we were to some extent policed out of existence and with leaving in controlled batches the massed procession experience was largely lost.

    On the other hand gathering at the Meadows is easy for lots of folk and there is a brief period of 'critical mass' while queuing which is perhaps important for participants.

    Tough call.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. holisticglint
    Member

    I share tammyroots sentiments on this but this is the legal situation

    https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know

    and it will be Sally's and Co who the police will be wanting a word with if we don't play along.

    I think we should push for the Saturday and see how far we get. Since they will be rolling out the cones to close off various bits of the city for the Run that weekend anyway you might be able to make an efficiency argument (?)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. holisticglint
    Member

    @crowriver - If the key thing (politically) is the demo then that gives a lot more flexibility on the route.

    I think that the massing at the Meadows and the "traffic free family ride" aspect of PoP draws a lot of families to the event even if that misses the point a bit but provides for good press photo ops.

    If the disruption/impact of PoP is likely to get policed away regardless of which day it is held on then it is important to do everything possible to maximize turnout.

    The numbers need to keep going up.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. steveo
    Member

    If there’s no march organised as part of your protest, you don’t have to tell the police.

    Just a thought...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. twq
    Member

    I'm not part of any protest group, I just happen to be cycling from the Meadows to parliament...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. crowriver
    Member

    The numbers need to keep going up.

    The problem is, the only time anyone saw the full turnout last year was at the Meadows. The procession itself was broken up into smaller groups. At the end of the ride many people, maybe as many as half the turnout, just carried on or did not stay for the speeches at the Parly. That was a contrast to the first year where my impression was most people stayed.

    So 'numbers' is a moveable feast, literally.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. WickyWocky
    Member

    Having it on a local holiday weekend = problematic because of the local families who will be away. However, if it's on a Sunday of a holiday weekend elsewhere but not, in general, here then it might attract more people and families as they won't have to travel back late on a school/work night, or if they're thinking of going away for the weekend, why not to Edinburgh and PoP?

    Having said that, the CEC schools are going to be closed on Thursday 22nd May for an in service day / Euro elections and I can see a fair few people keeping their kids off school on the Friday and taking that as an even longer weekend than the Victoria day one preceding it, or taking the whole week off. I'm tempted to!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. PS
    Member

    I like wingpig's suggestion. Protest is at the parliament and folk just ride there from wherever they start from or happen to meet up at. I may just meet up with folk I know at the Meadows because it's pretty central, Peter's Yard and all that.

    A lot of cyclists moving through the city may have just as big an effect on perceptions as a single "march/pedal".

    An added bonus might be that CEC sees how (in)adequate some of the promoted cycle routes to the Parliament are. I'd imagine a lot of traffic through Gifford Park/Rankeillor Street might give pause for thought.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    1) Proper funding for cycling.
    2) Design cycling into Scotland’s roads.
    3) Safer speeds where people live, work and play
    4) Integrate cycling into local transport strategies
    5) Sensible road traffic law and enforcement
    6) Reduce the risk of HGVs to cyclists and pedestrians
    7) A strategic and joined-up programme of road user training
    8) Solid research on cycling to support policy-making

    We want to show that all of the above is not just a cyclists wish list, but sensible and needed strategy for improving cycling in this country.

    Personally, I don't see how the wee sunday ride from the meadows to Holyrood best achieves that.

    End of April is a good time. It allows us to measure changes over the last year. Thousands of cyclists descending on the Parliament from all over the city would be a great way to highlight all the above.

    Organise 'family routes' perhaps based around schools. Clusters of primary's can meet at high schools and then ride en mass to Holyrood.

    Individuals of other groups should be encouraged to navigate their own route to Holyrood.

    Its the stories of how those groups, those families and those individuals got across town that will highlight why the 8 points above are needed.

    Encourage folk who organise any kind of ride to Holyrood to record it, or invite a blogger or journalist or reporter to cover their story.

    Oh, and organise the rally at Parliament on a Saturday.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. Instography
    Member

    I'm inclined towards thinking that having the whole thing at the park would be better, especially given how fractured and un-demo like the 'procession' to the Parliament was. And if I should happen to go via the canal and Harrison Park and find myself in the company of other cyclists ...

    I also thought one of the most moving parts of the Meadows end - the mass bell ringing - would be more effective at the Parliament. That seems to me to be the nub of the protest: the acknowledgment that people are dying while the Government does nothing. Not crawling slowly down the High Street in a carefully managed mini-convoy. I'd trade that for all the speeches but whatever, it should be done at the Parliament. Let's see a Government stooge stand and make excuses and have his 10% aspirations after a few thousand people have just paid tribute to the past year's dead cyclists.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. PS
    Member

    "We want to show that all of the above is not just a cyclists wish list, but sensible and needed strategy for improving cycling quality of life in this country."

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. LaidBack
    Member

    Gathering at Holyrood is a good idea. People can choose how they get there. Last year more time was spent pre-ride in the Meadows.
    If we are supposedly going to meet the targets then the choice of routes to Holyrood must be shown to work (or not). Families I know may be put off but with enough start points and some experienced riders in the mix it should be do-able.
    This is then more a 'bring your bike to town' day and might be a bit more 'natural' than a 'Skyride' type of thing?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. crowriver
    Member

    Yes, people pedal on the Parliament from wherever they happen to be. No need for police permission, marshals, or moving folk down the Royal Mile in batches.

    All you need is a date, a time, some flyers/posters, press releases, PA system for speakers and everyone to bring their bicycle bell.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  29. Instography
    Member

    I'm smirking as I imagine the panic that lots and lots of people are going to do what they should be able to do: ride to a big park in the city centre to have a picnic without being chaperoned by police outriders.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  30. sallyhinch
    Member

    Interesting suggestions (meanwhile on Facebook people are keen to PoP in Glasgow instead). I don't know about the rest of POP but I'm genuinely in two minds (or three or four) about what to decide

    Two things I do want to say: one, whatever the limitations of last year's POP, it did end up with an extra £20m being announced for cycling and walking. Perhaps it would have happened anyway but remember that in the run up to POP1 they were planning on cutting funding for active travel.

    Two - I'd really love to hear the perspective of people who brought their kids to POP or would like to, and especially those who don't normally ride with them in Edinburgh's traffic. I wouldn't underestimate the power of seeing lots of ordinary, nice (yes, even middle class) families on a smiley protest out on the streets on bikes even if it dilutes the protestery vibe a bit.

    The most powerful message we had last year was 'we are everyone'. My worry is that the 'assemble freestyle at Parliament en masse' idea (while otherwise very appealing) might be a bit daunting to some of those folk who came last year - the 'interested but concerned' demographic. Of course, they're unlikely to be hanging out on a forum called 'City Cycling Edinburgh...'

    Posted 10 years ago #

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