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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Contract with Cycling Scotland
(37 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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"
This Invitation to Tender is to support the aim of establishing a foundation for an evidence-based approach to encouraging cycling in Scotland. This will be accomplished by 1) delivering a database that contains data used to monitor, report and evaluate cycling in Scotland and 2) delivering a report that develops a methodology for analysing cycling potential in Scotland and assesses this cycling potential.
"
So the contract is for creating a database(?)
"evidence-based approach to encouraging cycling in Scotland"
Good idea.
So what's been happening to date?
And what was the evidence behind the NiceWayCode??
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
The following additional documents have been attached to this notice. To obtain these documents please click the Record your interest now button at the top of the page.
Current Documents
Created Name Description Size12/02/2014 2014-02-12 Cycling Potential and DB Tender v1.0 Cycling Scotland: Invitation to Tender - Cycling Potential and Monitoring Database Development 190.24 KB
12/02/2014 20130110 Monitoring Cycle Use Report FINAL January 2013 MVA: Methods for Monitoring Cycling in Scotland (2013) 776.04 KB
"
They look interesting. Anyone clicked the "Record your interest now button"?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Clicked it. Haven't read the brief yet.
Posted 10 years ago # -
So we need more studies to tell us what exactly? Cycling rates are low here compared to countries that spend more than pennies on cycling / active transport and prioritise them over less efficient and less socially beneficial forms of transport?
I wonder how much "evidence" they really need about why people do or don't cycle and what they would like to change? You never know, somewhere out there, there may indeed be a magic bullet that doesn't involve a little bit of political and budgetary and judicial will and for all it's searching, one day Cycling Scotland might turn up this Holy Grail and I'll be the first to show contrition.
YOU CAN'T CYCLE ON A DATABASE!
P.S., what's wrong with MS Office for this sort of thing?
Posted 10 years ago # -
delivering a report that develops a methodology for analysing cycling potential in Scotland and assesses this cycling potential
Doing b all, then. Business as usual.
what's wrong with MS Office for this sort of thing?
Posted 10 years ago # -
P.S., what's wrong with MS Office for this sort of thing?
Let me count the ways!
Depends how much data they're expecting to record access is fine for small to medium data sets.
But having (some) experience with both the public and private sector, when they say database what they likely mean is an overly complex excel file filled to crashing point every time its opened upon which any real analysis is virtually impossible.
/rant
Posted 10 years ago # -
"filled to crashing point every time its opened upon which any real analysis is virtually impossible"
True, but I think there is a feeling 'here' that either there isn't much "evidence" - or at least there are all sorts of similar things all over the world that help - 'infrastructure', lower speeds etc.
The only analysis required is how to best get the political will.
Not sure a database will help.
I'd start by replacing certain politicians and officials.
Don't think a database can do that.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I was having a (un)professional rant, so many organisations rely on Excel inappropriately then wonder why they lose data and then find basic analysis takes much longer than it should.
I fully agree on the face of it this is as waste of time but politicians like to been seen to make “evidence” based decisions and for something that looks like evidence you need data.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"politicians like to been seen to make “evidence” based decisions"
This of course is (probably) a good idea.
(In an unrelated case there is probably a lot of desperate trawling to check the 'evidence' for not dredging...)
The problem of course is that this (sort of thing) is political.
It has politically been decided that getting more people cycling is 'a good thing'.
Not sure what the evidence (for the decision) is.
Might just be that the officials/politicians give in to pressure (those pesky cycle campaigners again). Like (random examples) HS2 or a better aircraft carrier, (with or without aircraft) someone somewhere at some stage has to believe those are a good idea and hope the evidence supports their case.
OR (like too many road schemes) they just believe it's a good thing - and/or 'what the voters want'.
EVIDENCE like, (long term) better health/less NHS spending or 'nicer places to live' is just too hard to factor in.
There can't be much EVIDENCE that spending £3m on Leith Walk will massively increase the numbers of people cycling (or walking) - that's politics.
Sometimes you just have to have 'faith' that things will 'work' - or at least are worth trying.
Somewhere - Amsterdam, Copenhagen, New York, Edinburgh things were tried for the first time (or at least without too much care for "evidence"). I'm sure some things were a 'mistake' or 'more successful than we imagined'.
How does a database weigh these? (Technical question.) Does an 'evidence database' only record the good stuff?
Cycling Scotland has organised conferences with people from 'elsewhere' explaining what worked AND what didn't.
My simple one-line analysis -
A mix of doing stuff (without necessary telling/asking first) and then doing more.
So the evidence has been sought, the conference papers will be on-line, CAPS has been refreshed.
It's NOT about evidence it's political will (and/or delaying tactics).
Don't forget SG is not in favour of strict liability because 'there is no evidence it works' - just that most European countries think it probably does.
Some of the same SG people are involved in SL and cycling.
Posted 10 years ago # -
If this contract is under £10k it might be useful 'speculative spending'.
More than that and it might be better giving it to PoP.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I did say seen to :)
I'm tempted to register my interest to get the details about what they're actually trying to record, its far from clear from the breif.
How does a database weigh these? (Technical question.) Does an 'evidence database' only record the good stuff?
A well designed database should only store data, there is no such thing as bad stuff, corrupt or garbage data are quite possible (probable) but there should only data.
The
politcal spinevidence will come form the second part "delivering a report that develops a methodology for analysing cycling potential in Scotland and assesses this cycling potential. " Which I think is more Instography area of expertise.Posted 10 years ago # -
More than that and it might be better giving it to PoP.
For that I'm sure "we" could do it and donate the profit to PoP.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Given that point 8 of the POP manifesto is 'solid research and statistics on cycling' we can hardly complain about them developing some evidence... (not that £10k wouldn't be welcome!)
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I did say seen to :)"
Perhaps you are more cynical than I am!
You're (perhaps) saying politicians don't have any courage without 'proof'!
And I just thought they wanted excuses not to do anything!
Posted 10 years ago # -
Perhaps you are more cynical than I am!
I think you demonstrate that every time you engage with the council of the day, I'd have given up long before now!
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I think you demonstrate that every time you engage with the council"
I take it that's a compliment(?)
Cynicism is winning...
Maybe that's not true.
What's the word for 'tired of seeing too little progress'?
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'm tempted to register my interest to get the details about what they're actually trying to record, its far from clear from the breif.
Fallen at the first, Need an organisation name and I'm not sure my employer would be happy with me bidding on their behalf...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Cynicism is winning...
Cynicism never wins its just not surprised when it looses.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Need an organisation name"
Steveo Consulting sounds good to me.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Still haven't read the brief but it says on public contracts scotland that the budget is £40k.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Insto, have you got a copy? Could you forward it on, save me registering as Steveo Constulting!
Posted 10 years ago # -
"EVIDENCE like, (long term) better health/less NHS spending"
...and what did they use to measure that? They would have used data which was stored in a database somewhere.
"KPI's", "Management information", "analytics" are all the rage just now in public service. You need to record everything, it costs a lot, is labour intensive but does offer some interesting information. Often when you look at the data, what you thought was working hasn't been. It just offers you an impartial means of recording stuff, and seeing if that stuff made a difference or not.
Problem with cycling, and especially joe public cycling is it's probably difficult to actually measure change without relying on anecdote. But something like Pedal for Scotland for example, if you have a KPI which states that "Pedal for Scotland numbers should increase 10% each year" that's easy to measure, but the benefit less so...
Cycling Scotland as a public body will I imagine have been told (rightly) to justify that what it does has a measurable impact. Perhaps after implementation of this DB they will have access to much better management information and be able to put that to good use.
Data is good, it's a question of what you do with it. It has to be paid for from somewhere...
Posted 10 years ago # -
chdot: "What's the word for 'tired of seeing too little progress'?"
Kleinefortschritteangst?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"A well designed database should only store data, there is no such thing as bad stuff, corrupt or garbage data are quite possible (probable) but there should only data."
Maybe I mis-phrased my question.
Was more wondering about whether 'all' evidence would be collated and whether did-work/didn't-work would (somehow) be scored equally 'for balance' or whether there would be a presumption of looking for 'good' examples and also ways of comparing things and 'inventing' best outcomes by comparing/merging 'best practice.
Maybe some of the £40k will go on philosophical considerations(?)
Clearly a job for CCE/PoP Consulting.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Yeah. Got a colleague to email it. Tell me where to send it.
To be honest it's not a bad brief and you can kind of see what that sort of thing would be useful for. The project's in two parts - the database is intended to pull together all the data about and related to cycling that is currently scattered across different agencies and surveys. Quite a sensible thing to do. You could ask why no one has done it already but you can't really complain that CS is now doing it.
The second part is to develop a methodology for estimating cycling potential. Remember those maps I produced of where all the cyclists are? It would sort of be the opposite of that - where are all the potential cyclists. That means defining a potential cyclist (or a variety of types of potential cyclists) in terms of the data sources that are available and coming up with some way of calculating 'potential' at a geographical level that local authorities or other agencies can work with. So instead of random bits of infrastructure or wafer thin spreading of resources you'd be able to say "THERE! INVEST THERE!'
Again, it seems intrinsically sensible. And you have to ask why it hasn't been done already. I've had some conversations with CS about this in the past and I'm aware of some other work that has done similar things. You might think £40k is a lot of money but from my point of view, it's not enough for what they're looking for and, given the timescale, I doubt I'll bid for it.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Again, it seems intrinsically sensible. And you have to ask why it hasn't been done already. I've had some conversations with CS about this in the past and I'm aware of some other work that has done similar things."
In other words - 'more of the same, but this time do it "properly"'(?)
"So instead of random bits of infrastructure or wafer thin spreading of resources you'd be able to say "THERE! INVEST THERE!'"
Around 1999 there was the Scottish Office Cycle Challenge (evaluation). A few years ago the was Smarter Choices, Smarter Places (final report last year)
In recent years Sustrans has been spending a lot of SG money on infrastructure AND 'projects' - including things like I Bike.
There will be 'end of project reports' on all of them.
Does anyone in SG/TS/CS read them and learn anything??
Posted 10 years ago # -
"What's the word for 'tired of seeing too little progress'?"
Disheartened?
"It would sort of be the opposite of that - where are all the potential cyclists. That means defining a potential cyclist (or a variety of types of potential cyclists) in terms of the data sources that are available..."
Aaaages ago (sometime around the congestion-zone referendum era) a survey at my work resulted in, amongst other things, an employee location map. I can't remember if it distinguished between the various city-centre office locations. I think it displayed preferred travel-mode. I don't know whether this was something all large potentially-inside-congestion-zone employers were required to do by the council or just something HR were doing for fun, but if the council/government has any more of this sort of stuff it would be of massive value.
Traffic surveys can determine volumes of vehicles and people travelling through various points in various directions at various times but can't work out their start and end points nor why their route was selected, nor what the alternatives could have been. The 'potential' for cycling per geographical clump ought to be informed by the journey destination as well as the start point and the start point's proximity to existing 'facilities', assuming that people could be put off by evil junctions mere feet from the destination even if the NEPN or Innocent was two feet from their front door. Presumably potential impediments like geographical clumps' predominant habitation-type cycle-friendliness would be considered, including ways around this such as better communal or on-street storage. Presumably data sources such as existing cyclists' infrastructural gripe maps could be included, to identify bits which would be worth fixing properly for the benefit of many, including the potentials.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Problem with cycling, and especially joe public cycling is it's probably difficult to actually measure change without relying on anecdote."
"Presumably data sources such as existing cyclists' infrastructural gripe maps could be included"
In these much hyped days of Big Data there is a MASS of potentially useful info.
"Often when you look at the data, what you thought was working hasn't been. It just offers you an impartial means of recording stuff, and seeing if that stuff made a difference or not."
I'm sure £40k is cheap for the amount of work intended.
I just wish I had some confidence that when it's all collated and intelligently interrogated and conclusively analysed, there will be some ACTION.
Don't suppose there be any comparison of (for instance) value for money of spending on other modes of transport.
Posted 10 years ago #
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