CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Another sainsbury's local?

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    @ArchHist: Just how many convenience supermarkets does Tollcross need? Or maybe every 10yds is just, well, 'convenient'... https://t.co/HlPPs9KfPB

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Right opposite a Tesco Express thing too. And round the corner from a Sainsburys on Morrison Street also?!

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. wingpig
    Member

    The premises appear to extend the length of the block back to Dunbar St, yet "entrance/deliveries" both marked on Earl Grey Street. That particular chunk of road is not well-suited to having a lorry block the bus lane a couple of times a day.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    " "entrance/deliveries" both marked on Earl Grey Street"

    Hmm, I'm sure there we'll be a rear entrance for deliveries - just not designed for artics...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. gembo
    Member

    I count five sainsburys locals now within mile. This one, the Morrison st one, one next to the odeon, the one at fountainbridge and the one at west port.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  6. algo
    Member

    Six - corner of Spottiswoode Road and Marchmont Road.... (just within a mile I think)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. steveo
    Member

    Whats the issue exactly? Yes deliveries are a real problem for "us" but if they're helping people not to drive to Savacenter or the like on balance I'm not convinced they are a "bad thing". If you are don't shop there, if enough people don't shop there the stores will revert to empty frontage.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I calculate this will result in 8.3 Sainsbury's per square mile in South Central Edinburgh (S. Clerk St, Marchmont Road, Quartermile, Lauriston Place, Bruntsfield, Fountainbridge, Morrison Street and now Earl Grey Street).

    I know these places are generally always more expensive than the big stores, but I do wonder if they are run at much of a profit (or in profit at all), or rather are seen as an acceptable loss and a valuable way to steer people away from their competitors and perhaps try and reinforce some brand loyalty.

    Regardless of which chain it is, generally I find these local/Express/Metro/whatever stores dire places to shop. You can pick up this or that, a bite for lunch or something for dinner if you're in a rush, but I don't see them as practical places to do the "big shop" unless you've a very restricted palate and got money to burn. I don't think anyone who already drives for a big shop will not have to drive to the big store because they get fleeced now and again on a Jamie Oliver ciabatta at one of these little places.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    Bruntsfield too.

    Can't remember what it was before Nastiuk (dry cleaners?) sold to Peckham's which eventually went bust - possibly due to supermarket 'competition'.

    Now, Bruntsfield probably has a higher % of caffs than Morningsde.

    Things change - not always for the best, nor always with any discernible 'logic'.

    'Obviously' some of 'us' boycott such things, others will 'hold our noses' and use them anyway, the rest will be 'wots the problem'.

    The Marchmont one replaced a Margiotta's and a Black Medicine - both 'local businesses'.

    In the 'supermarket wars' the conventional wisdom is that the 'top and bottom are doing OK and the middle squeezed' - eg Morrison.

    The 'bottom' - Aldi/Lidl are moving up, and the others (Tesco/Sainsbury) moving smaller.

    To some extent this is 'good' - a move away from mega-destinations with massive car parks.

    It will no doubt lead to (further) closure of independent shops. Some not as good as we like to remember!

    Don't think Sainsbury will replace Valvona.

    It terms of deliveries, I'm sure many cities will do more to ban big lorries.

    If Sainsbury is 'going local' it might make more sense to service with smaller vehicles(?)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. steveo
    Member

    I don't think anyone who already drives for a big shop will not have to drive to the big store

    No, I expect people will still drive for their "weekly shop" but it might help with the "drat I'm out of milk" drive to the shops. Which is just as long a drive as the big shop.

    Tesco has just opened an express at Stenhouse Cross, I doubt any one is complaining about the shop its self though the locals may be unhappy about the extra traffic. So maybe they won't help after all... Dunno.

    For me its only a few minutes closer than Either Tesco Corstorphine, Sainsbury's Longstone or Asda Chesser. I'm not entirely sure how these big supermarkets can be profitable.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    "I know these places are generally always more expensive than the big stores, but I do wonder if they are run at much of a profit (or in profit at all)"

    I can understand the logic of charging more in premises that are probably more expensive to run, but I think it probably undermines 'brand loyalty'!

    The other big factor is the internet - or more explicitly the 'free delivery over £50).

    This must be reducing the 'need' to have a car to 'do the weekly shop'.

    Lack of on-line ordering was one of the reasons for Morrison's problems.

    When the Scottish Parliament was new, there was a real chance of a tax on parking spaces (supermarkets and workplaces). But Sarah Boyack was monstered by the Daily Record and MSPs - in her party.

    "Grocers rush to open 'dark stores' as online food shopping expands"

    How long before an existing superstore closes to shoppers?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "I'm not entirely sure how these big supermarkets can be profitable"

    In simplistic terms it's because they squeeze their suppliers, have economies of scale etc.

    (And no doubt are 'tax efficient'.)

    But yes! HOW can so many survive/increase/profit.

    I'm sure there are top level management discussions about 'what to do if the Co-op collapses'.

    IF it does, there will be cherry-picking of 'good' sites and a lot of closures that be some relief for the remaining 'big chains'.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    chdot: "This must be reducing the 'need' to have a car to 'do the weekly shop'"

    And at the same time Tesco hand out £5 off if you spend over £40 vouchers. That encourages car use.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    In Morningside what used to be the Co-op (many years ago) was partly Iceland for a while and is now M&S Food.

    The Co-op probably declined when Safeway opened. That went through a few changes and is currently Waitrose.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. steveo
    Member

    In simplistic terms it's because they squeeze their suppliers, have economies of scale etc.

    I was thinking more about how three big sites can sucessfully co-exist with in a few miles of each other. Thats before you consider the total number of stores including those from the same chain that are only a couple of miles further out.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    "I was thinking more about how three big sites can sucessfully co-exist with in a few miles of each other."

    Indeed.

    I assume they don't publish individual store turnover/profit figures.

    Don't know if it's pack mentality or 'maintaining' market share'.

    It's a pity there isn't a planning system that adequately takes 'wider issues' into account.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  17. neddie
    Member

    Don't worry. Once they've forced all the independents out of business, the locals/metros/etc will dry up again, forcing everyone to drive out to the big supermarkets. It was their plan all along.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. wingpig
    Member

    Once upon a time I lived directly above Nicolson St. Tesco, shortly after it was de-WmLowed, then lived near it again for ten years a bit later. It evolved during that time from a shop you could pretty much live out of (excepting occasional trips further afield when I fancied a longer walk/bike and/or multi-kilogramme bags of rice/pasta/potatoes) but the most recent shuffle (when they finally got to a checkout setup which was mostly able to cope with the customer volume) has placed it firmly in the same Express slot as the limited-use Earl Grey St version - fine for top-ups but not for sustained proper-cooking living. There are slight variations but the Sainsbureaux on MMW/Bruntsfield Place/West Port and especially Bernard Terrace fall into the same mostly-plucked-carcass stock range. The new tiny one in Porty is equally low-level. Bernard St. somehow manages to be slightly more useful despite the similar size and unsuitable shape. Maybe they all make enough from lunchtime sandwich deals (to which they all commit several metres of fridgespace) and the higher profit margin on teeny boxes of high-end cereals to sustain themselves despite beng highly unlikely to be anyone's main source of all-round shopping.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. gembo
    Member

    @edd1e_h, that sounds about right. Grocers on corner now must be feeling very like their jackets are on shoogly pegs.

    Seems to be a bit of overkill though. There are so many of them so close together and indeed not far from two big sainsburys at longstone and murrayfield, neither that busy.

    Steveo' s new Tesco metro at Stenhouse is only supermarket brand on that street. Scotmid downsized to convenience stores to survive. Their prices tend not to fluctuate, however their supplier CWS is at great risk.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. SRD
    Moderator

    @wingpig. Agree entirely! Indeed mr SRD says exactly that every time I say 'you could just try the new fountainbridge sainsburys instead of cycling of to waitrose/Asda/Burys'

    Luckily our wee Scotmid continues to be fairly good on essentials - except that they change what they stock so often that it is hard to keep on top of it.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  21. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Our Tesco was built next to the Grammar school. Easy to see the logic there. ALso next to the health centre which will be handy when Tesco take over the NHS.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  22. Baldcyclist
    Member

    <devils advocate>What impact do they have on the local economy in terms of jobs, and impact on other non food local retailers? They may well be the devil in disguise, but they probably do employ more people than the 'local' retailers they put out of business did?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  23. crowriver
    Member

    It will no doubt lead to (further) closure of independent shops. Some not as good as we like to remember!

    Margiotta a case in point. I have nothing but negative memories of that local 'chain': overpriced, stock often past sell by date, poor choice (this was back in the nineties, maybe they improved in the zeroes but I doubt it). A Sinsberries lokal would frankly be an improvement.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  24. wangi
    Member

    It will no doubt lead to (further) closure of independent shops. Some not as good as we like to remember!
    Indeed - one of the comforting things about a chain shop is people get what they're expecting. Sure they're replacing corner shops / newsagents etc... but at least you're not accosted with a wall load of porn when walking in.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  25. fimm
    Member

    The Margiotta on Ashley Terrace is a bit far from us to be a regular shop, but it does a good selection of beer to drink in Harrison Park, interesting cakes and bread and stuff. Veg not so great. Does meat from one of the local organic farms too I think.

    The new Morrisons local on Gorgie Road is pish. We go to the Co-op if we don't want to go as far as Sainsburys.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  26. crowriver
    Member

    I take back what I said earlier about Margiotta. Seems they have gone upmarket, and now stock a range of local and organic produce.

    Things change I guess...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  27. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    We hate ourselves for it, but you have to admit that the 'local' shops that the big five are killing off were never that great. Margiotta's...good comedy back in the day with Don Margiotta shuffling around polishing red peppers in his slippers....Wm Low's in Newington (Motto: You can have any vegetable you like as long as it's a turnip or a bruised onion.) was like a trip to Enver Hoxha's Albania. Add to that the struggling grocery shops that sold fags and booze to children...it wasn't great.

    I went through a phase of trying to use independent butchers and fishmongers, but they all seem to target non-working people and close at five. No idea why - if I had a food shop I'd be targeting wage earners on their way home.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  28. wingpig
    Member

    "...if I had a food shop I'd be targeting wage earners on their way home..."

    In terms of attracting purchases "there's a supermarket on my way home" may be significantly more successful than "I'll pop past the supermarket on the way home" with today's thin margins and stressed workforces.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  29. Instography
    Member

    IWRATS gets to the nub of it. These places survive and multiply because they operate properly as convenience stores. And convenience means that people won't go much out of their way to use them. Tesco never put a local shop out of business - their customers did. If people really liked those local shops they would turn their noses up at Tesco but they don't. At least not enough of them do.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  30. wingpig
    Member

    "Tesco never put a local shop out of business - their customers did. If people really liked those local shops people would turn their noses up at Tesco but they don't. "

    Tescokind also have the resources (automation, patience, staff, cash) to be able to pummel smaller competitors with fancier opening hours, more tills, brighter lights, less visibly-weatherbeaten apples and so on, if it became necessary.

    Posted 10 years ago #

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