CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News

"Is it really safer to wear a helmet when cycling?"

(153 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from wee folding bike

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  1. steveo
    Member

    ADMIN NOTE - this has been removed from the random spam tin.

    @Kim, do you understand the 12mph rating? Its not about your horizontal speed its your vertical speed. Your speed along your direction of horizontal travel has nothing to do with the rating.

    Its all to do with speed at which you head hits the ground after accelerating from 0 m/s ie your starting position head shoulders vertical in relation to the ground. The rating of ~5m/s is then protecting you from a half second fall at earth's nominal gravity (9.8m/s/s). Your horizontal speed is scrubbed off by other means usually the friction of your body bouncing over the tarmac.....

    this would be much clearer with a diagram but i can't draw.

    Note the motor cycle helmet standard is for about the same speed, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_helmet#Standards_testing

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. spitfire
    Member

    @Kim - Sorry once again you seem to misunderstand my wording.
    I believe a helmet may help in some accidents.
    That does mean I am fully aware of the testing process.
    I am not a helmet engineer.
    Some things I leave to the "experts"
    I believe there is no harm in wearing one, it doesn't hurt to wear it.
    I have had 2 accidents on town roads on my bike
    I have had precisely 0 when walking

    @SRD - crikey that wiki is huge!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. recombodna
    Member

    I love this bit "At first glance, this is confusing given that motorcyclists frequently ride at speeds higher than 20 m/s (45 mph).".........you don't say!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    What I'm curious about is why everyone (well, especially the antis) go on about 'standards dropping' but no one gives any reason WHY. I can't believe that standards are lowered for no reason at all (bad reasons yes, but at least there is an explanation).

    Was it because of the point about 'falling speed' made on the motorcycle wiki as steveo points out?

    Or lobbying by cycle helmet makers?

    Or something else?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  5. Kim
    Member

    @steveo you seem to be confusing cycle helmets with motorcycle helmets, the two are very different is construction, strength and testing.

    @SRD if you follow the link in my earlier post you will get an explanation of cycle helmet test standards. The reason the standards have been lowered is not due to lobbying by cycle helmet makers, they set the standards! They don't need to lobby themselves.

    The reason the standards have been lowered is because the Pro Cyclist (who have to wear helmets if they want to make a living, because the rules say so) demanded helmets with more vents as they are at risk of heat stroke (polystyrene is a very good insulator). Helmets with lots of vents are inevitable less strong than helmets without. The big money in helmets is from the pro tour wantabe rides (or MAMIL as they are now called), the myth of safety is so strong that fashion can be allowed to take over.

    There was a thread recently asking why so many people were seen riding with their helmets hanging from their bars. Well it was a spell of warm weather, and having a polystyrene hat soon gets very uncomfortable.

    Wearing helmets should be personal choice, I don't want to tell anyone they should wear one, as there is no evidence that they can reduce the risk of serious head injury. They may reduce the risk of minor head injury, but there is evidence that they can also increase the risk of head and facial injury. The balance of probability is that they are pointless...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. SRD
    Moderator

    "The reason the standards have been lowered is not due to lobbying by cycle helmet makers, they set the standards!"

    I guess it depends what we mean by 'standards'. I meant the EU standard as introduced by legislation, which is what the link you posted refers to (I _had_ read it, that was what prompted my question).

    Your suggestion that it stems from pro riders may make sense, although I wonder if they are a big enough constituency? In any event, this doesn't tell us anything about the policy development process.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. steveo
    Member

    Not really all that different Kim, mostly just the shell is a composite instead of plastic. The testing methods are basically the same. Hit with anvil traveling at between 4-12 m/s record result. Not sure what you expect...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. wee folding bike
    Member

    SRD,

    I can't get access to Chapman Central's web page but he had a link which said that insurance companies had not asked the UCI to make helmets required for pros. His web page was working last week but the server isn't accepting connections.

    The riders didn't want them, in the past they would just accept the fine for not using one.

    Using the time honoured approach of looking for who benefits it seems likely that the manufacturers want the pros to wear them because then the MAMILs will buy them.

    I never went that far, I did used to wear replica shirts but that was 20 years ago.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. steveo
    Member

    Interestingly cycle helmets must meet the 250g test criteria twice, while a motorcycle helmet for the most part is only expected to support a 300g test once.

    http://www.satra.co.uk/spotlight/article_view.php?id=291

    This one is also quite an interesting insight into testing methodologies. Sizeable PDF

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. wee folding bike
    Member

    So helmets aren't too dangerous at low speeds.

    I wonder why they didn't try impacting the bare head form. Near the beginning of the paper they mention not wanting to damage the equipment. I can't think of any other reason why they didn't try it with no hat.

    Probably best not to read it while trying to watch DS9.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. spitfire
    Member

    @weefoldingbike - "Probably best not to read it while trying to watch DS9"

    you mean you can't multitask yet?

    @Kim - "Wearing helmets should be personal choice, I don't want to tell anyone they should wear one,"

    So don't tell anyone they shouldn't either

    "there is no evidence that they can reduce the risk of serious head injury"

    On the slip side there must be no evidence they don't

    "They may reduce the risk of minor head injury"

    Win! Better they reduce the risk of some injury huh?

    "there is evidence that they can also increase the risk of head and facial injury"

    Link please.
    How can wearing a helmet mke you land on your face any more than not wearing a helmet? Is it like dropping the toast butter side down?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  12. wee folding bike
    Member

    Even if there was no risk associated with wearing a helmet it doesn't automatically mean that you would want to wear one. The risk of an injury is very low and it might not make sense to wear a hat as a preventative measure. For example there is a risk of a head injury while walking down the road but it's very low so by and large we don't take special precautions.

    However, helmets don't make it into the zero increase of risk category. There is a cost associated with them.

    I don't tell people in the street not to wear one but I may have a little chuckle at them in all their cycling gear as the pedal on the pavement or are passed by a guy in Craghopper shorts on a Pashley Roadster... as happened this morning.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  13. Dave
    Member

    Much of the smoke and fire misses the point completely, IMO. Even if helmets prevented 100% of all injuries they would still be a net loser.

    Consider that we have 130 bike fatalities a year, and as around 50% of dead cyclists have fatal non-head injuries anyway, we're talking about at most ~65 lives a year.

    Now consider that there are 150,000 strokes a year, 100,000 heart attacks a year, and a staggering 43% of men in the UK are clinically overweight.

    When we balance helmet use with non-helmet use, what we are really doing is balancing the lives saved on the one side with the lives lost on the other. Nowhere on earth has anyone managed to achieve helmet use and popular cycling at the same time.

    In fact as reported here before, the Danes have lost 30% from their very respectable level of bike use, associated with extensive helmet promotion. We can choose between helmet use and public health, but you can't have both.

    =======

    However, unfortunately bike helmets don't prevent 100% of cyclist deaths, or anything like it.

    Everywhere there are population-level statistics for the widespread adoption of helmets we see the same thing - head injuries and non-head injuries both fall by about the same amount.

    Since it's not credible to imagine that helmets prevent non-head injuries, the only answer is that helmet promotion / legislation crucifies cycling participation, and indeed when you look at survey data that is exactly the case - falls of between 30-45% are reliably observed.

    The whole thing is a disaster from start to finish, and the final insult to injury is that the head injury rates of pedestrians and drivers are in the same ballpark as cyclists - but without any helmet promotion being anywhere seen (probably because our risk assessment of walking or driving is more realistic than for cycling, which again comes back to the fearmongering).

    Posted 14 years ago #
  14. SRD
    Moderator

    "Following the implementation of legislation in PEI and Alberta, recreational and commuting bicycle use remained
    unchanged among youth and adults..... Helmet legislation is not associated with changes in ridership."

    Methodology: "Analysis of bicycle use was based on data from the 2000e01, 2003, 2005, and 2007 cycles of the CCHS and included respondents from all provinces. In the time between the 2000e01 and 2007 cycles, two provinces (Prince Edward Island (PEI) and Alberta) implemented helmet legislation."

    Source: Dennis et al "The effects of provincial bicycle helmet legislation on helmet use and bicycle ridership in Canada" Injury Prevention 2010 16: 219-224 [a BMJ journal]

    Interestingly, the data on which this was based will probably not be available in the future as the minority Tory govt has made parts of the census no longer required. Much more public debate and criticism over these changes in Canada than there seemed to be here in response to binning of our census. Opposition Liberals are making a big issue of it, also business and others.

    ....later....
    Actually, I take that back. Not sure how the Canadian Household survey relates to the census. But still struck by how issue about census data not being available became a major story in canada but not here.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  15. Dave
    Member

    Source: Dennis et al "The effects of provincial bicycle helmet legislation on helmet use and bicycle ridership in Canada" Injury Prevention 2010 16: 219-224 [a BMJ journal]

    This is interesting because when you look specifically at Alberta, for instance, there is good evidence that bike use did fall: "the number of child cyclists fell between 2000 and 2004 from 10.3% to 4.8% of all cyclists and teenagers from 15.4% to 10.3%, a very significant reduction (p=0.0015)" (2000 was pre-child helmet law, 2004 was post-child helmet law).

    The data is from the same journal: Injury Prevention, 2006;12:262-265, while the commentary is from the BHRF. As it's impossible for a 2010 paper to have done new surveys, I'm at a loss to suggest how they've explained a 50% fall as "remained unchanged". (Answers on a postcard?)

    In British Columbia "a survey to measure helmet use in 1999 suggested that the cyclist profile had changed, with around 30% fewer cyclists aged 16 to 30 years, a similar reduction in road cycles and a smaller reduction in the proportion of females cycling."

    In Nova Scotia, "Post-law cycle use fell by 40% to 60%, with the largest decrease among teenagers." (Canadian Medical Association Journal, 2002;166(5): p602).

    These numbers agree with observations from other countries, like Australia and NZ. Quite what Dennis et al have done to reconcile the data from the Canadian Community Health Survey with the actual observation that many fewer people are cycling is hard to say, without access to the full text. Do you get the journal?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  16. SRD
    Moderator

    Yes. Cycle use did fall, but the interesting thing about this study is that it compares two provinces which introduced helmet legislation with others which didn't. There is also a discussion of other research -- which is clearly what inspired this part of the study.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  17. steveo
    Member

    Out of interest, how did the "control" provinces compare to the legislated provinces percentage drop wise?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  18. Kim
    Member

    Were they true controls? Were they hermetically sealed so that no reporting of the debate surrounding the introduction of the legislation in the "control" provinces?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  19. SRD
    Moderator

    there's a tonne of stuff about the variables, the survey administration, and the analysis, but the general meat is pasted below. I was wrong btw to agree with Dave that there was a drop - not in all cases, as the final sentence pasted below shows:

    "A recurring argument used by those who oppose
    bicycle helmet legislation is that legislation might
    discourage bicycling.9e11 Conflicting results were
    reported by the two studies that investigated this
    previously.12 13 The objectives of this study were to
    examine the association between the comprehensiveness
    of helmet legislation in Canada and bicycle
    helmet use in youth and in adults, and to compare
    bicycle ridership before and after the implementation
    of helmet legislation."

    "Bicycle ridership In each survey cycle, less than 4.3% of responses were excluded from the analysis of recreational bicycle use due to non-response
    or proxy interview. In 2001, 73.2% (64.4 to 82.0) of youth in PEI used bicycles, compared to 66.4% (56.6 to 76.1) in 2003, the year all-ages legislation was introduced (figure 3A). The mean number of times youth cyclists used their bicycles was 38.6 (28.9 to 48.4) in 2001 and 28.9 (22.6 to 35.2) in 2003 (figure 3B).
    Although these differences were not statistically significant, they were suggestive of a downward trend that was nonetheless not sustained in subsequent surveys. Among adults in PEI, the prevalence of bicycle use was 17.6% (15.6 to 19.6) in 2001 vs 19.0% (16.0 to 22.0) in 2003 (figure 3C). The mean number of times cycled was 20.0 (17.3 to 22.8) in 2001 and 17.3 (13.4 to 21.2) in 2003 (figure 3D). In Alberta, the prevalence of bicycle use in youth was highest
    in 2003, the year immediately after youth legislation was introduced, and then returned to pre-legislation levels (figure 3A). This trend was also evident in Alberta adults, suggesting that the trend was independent of changes in legislation. The mean frequency of bicycle use among youth cyclists was 30.1 (25.8 to 34.4) in 2001 and 28.1 (24.9 to 31.4) in 2003
    (figure 3B). From 2005 to 2007, the frequency of bicycle use among youth in Alberta dropped significantly. However a significant decrease was also observed among youth in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and British Columbia. With regard to commuter cyclists, less than 4.4% of responses in each survey cycle were excluded due to non-response or proxy interview. In each survey cycle, between 76% and 83% of bicycle commuters also used their bicycles for recreational purposes. In both Alberta and PEI, the change in the reported prevalence of commuting bicycle use following the introduction of legislation was not statistically significant among youth or adults (figure 4)."

    "Our analysis builds on these previous studies by
    including a concurrent comparison group and by expanding the Canadian study population to include adults and youth across Canada. We did not find a significant reduction in bicycle use among youth or adults following the implementation of legislation and even found an increase in bicycle use among Alberta
    youth in the year immediately following the introduction of legislation"

    Posted 14 years ago #
  20. SRD
    Moderator

    Kim, no of course, they were not 'experimental controls'. But Canadian provinces are very autonomous in policy-making on many areas, as is the media - far more so than US states, or Scotland/England.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  21. steveo
    Member

    @Kim of course they are not control in the physics sense thus the quotes.

    Now since we have some facts based on a proper study done in the last century can we drop this particular mode of attack?

    Thank you SRD that was an interesting read.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  22. Kim
    Member

    @spitfire where have I said that people shouldn't wear helmets if they want to? I don't object to women choosing to wear the Hijab, but I would strenuously to anyone say saying that all women should wear them.

    "They may reduce the risk of minor head injury"

    Win! Better they reduce the risk of some injury huh?

    Give that the risk of head injury per Km travelled is similar between cycling and walking, why you not wear a helmet will walking everywhere? Remember Donald Dewar, died after tripping and banging his head.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  23. Kim
    Member

    @steveo mode of attack? You are not used to academic debate, there is nothing wrong with questioning methodology. At most academic meetings I have been at this would be considered polite. Having been trained in science, I always look for potential flaws in methodology and the limits of confidence that can be put on the data.

    SRD has sort of answered my question, so the media is less syndicated in Canada and report less like to influence peoples decisions in other provinces.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  24. steveo
    Member

    Not on the study in particular or even our relaxed conversation, the "debate" in general.
    Reduced cycle use is one of the oft trucked out pieces of fud which doesn't really hold to close academic scrutiny.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  25. SRD
    Moderator

    Kim - yes, let's question the methods etc by all means, but steveo had put 'control' in quotes while your reply seemed necessarily sarcastic to me. In social science or healthcare research of this sort no one expects 'real' controls. It would be un-doable, and in fact, there would be no point as it would be so artificial.

    There are issues about climate/weather diffs between provinces, some different norms, and also just different cultures, but no obvious intervening variables that would affect change over time. (ie there are different levels of cycling in different places, but no reason to think that they would change at different rates). And pretty robust statistical tests seem to have been run to rule out SES type differences.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  26. wee folding bike
    Member

    Fud is "fear, uncertainty & doubt". How does this apply to the decrease in miles cycled after MHL?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  27. steveo
    Member

    The cause of the reduction is not related directly to the MHL, there is no causation (we've had this conversation) see above....

    Posted 14 years ago #
  28. wee folding bike
    Member

    I know you've stated it before. Have you some other spooky reason why the number of miles cycled in Aus decreased?

    I still don't see how "fud" is appropriate.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  29. Dave
    Member

    SRD, thanks for the post with details:

    What I was getting at before was, when the number of cyclists in Alberta was *actually observed* before and after the law (in the literal sense, somebody stood there and ticked a box whenever a cyclist came past) they found that there had been a marked decline.

    Yet the study above looked at a different form of data, the Canadian Community Health Survey (which if I understand correctly, is a questionnaire that people fill in) and concluded that there had been "an increase in bicycle use among Alberta youth in the year immediately following the introduction of legislation".

    It's clear that both of the above cannot be true. Does the study looking at questionnaire data discuss why their findings do not agree with physical cyclist counts?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  30. Dave
    Member

    The cause of the reduction is not related directly to the MHL, there is no causation (we've had this conversation) see above....

    And I called you out on this on page one, but to no avail.

    The different Australian states passed their laws at different times, and we can observe that cycling collapsed in states only as they passed their laws.

    "The average proportion cycling to work in states without enforced helmet laws increased in 1991, contrasting with the average decline for other states"

    - the Australian Northern Territories partially revoked their helmet law. Unlike everywhere else in Australia, the fall in cycling was reversed and now stands at just over 4% of journeys to work, compared with a national average of just over 1%.

    - we've seen how counts of cyclists in other jurisdictions correlate closely with helmet legislation / promotion.

    Now, I'd agree that the case is not 100% proven. But when helmet promotion is always correlated with a drop in cycling, and lifting helmet laws is correlated with a reversal of this drop, I for one find it relatively convincing.

    What's your alternative explanation for this correlation, if not causation?

    Posted 14 years ago #

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