CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Road rage, Craigcrook Road, 24/06/2014

(22 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by Focus
  • Latest reply from chdot
  • This topic is closed

  1. Focus
    Member

    ADMIN EDIT

    Driver involved has emailed with his version of events. (See below)

    As a result I think it's reasonable to remove video and image links from this post.

    A truly horrific example of uncontrolled aggression. To be clear, I did not contact his vehicle, nor did I swear, and I only raised my voice initially as he acted like he couldn't hear what I said.

    WARNING: contains swearing

    EDITED

    This thug was clearly spoiling for a fight with somebody. The very moment I speak to him, he blasts the horn (as though he was already hovering over the button), and is out of the car in a split second. He was straight in my face and clearly ready to throw punches. And that's when I warned him about the police, moving forward to get myself some space and force him to make the next move. He certainly didn't like (or expect) being filmed once I took the camera off my bars.

    Big thanks to the mother in the car at the head of the queue who you can just hear offering to be my witness if anything else happened. It wasn't my intention when speaking to her (in fact, I felt bad in case her daughter was to get upset) but I just needed to say something to somebody.

    Judging by the thug's driving as he originally passed me (going straight into the cycle lane ahead of me (and nearly hitting the van in front), I feel he may have issues with cyclists in general (as well as anger management issues). The van had ladders on the roof, and he had ladders in the car, so they may have been together. At the lights, he had left barely more than a tyre's width to the kerb.

    Step forward, driver of KIA Sportage, registration EDITED, easly one of the top 3 unhinged drivers it has been my displeasure to encounter.

    EDITED

    EDITED

    (Right-click and select "view image" for full size).

    By the way, I'm not even an inch over the ASL front line, even though it certainly looks like it on the video!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. Instography
    Member

    I'd hazard a guess that he didn't get those muscles just by lifting weights.

    I couldn't tell if he'd deliberately slammed on the brakes to see if you'd hit him. But that close to the pavement I'd either pass on the right, wait or go up on the pavement to get past.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. Focus
    Member

    It would certainly account for his anger issues too.

    I had hoped, in a moment of naivety, that a politely put bit of information, ending in the use of "mate" might have been better received. Of course, had I seen what a Neanderthal he was, I wouldn't have wasted my breath. By the way it's not clear from the video, but passing on the right wouldn't have got me far. It was the first thing I considered.

    As for the brakes, I'm not sure on that one myself, though it wouldn't have surprised me one bit.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. Dave
    Member

    At least you can console yourself that he looks like a prat on YouTube now.

    Horses for courses, but you could consider mounting the camera on your head (if you don't wear a helmet you can still do this with a headband, although it's a bit more hassle). I find it especially useful when people do stupid stuff because it saves all this manual aiming business. Take this nob who cut me up on video while sending a txt, then waved his phone under my nose (on camera) explaining why it wasn't his fault:

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. SRD
    Moderator

    focus - haven#'t been able to bring myself to watch, but really sorry to hear about this. horrible!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. ianfieldhouse
    Member

    Total nutjob!

    That's why I never bother saying anything to drivers, it's never going to end with them saying "Thanks for pointing that out for me" and always runs the risk of a violent end.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. Focus
    Member

    Thanks for the supportive comments.

    @ Dave

    Ironically, I had previously been using a helmetcam but since it went phut on me for a second time, I invested in a Garmin VIRB Elite 3 weeks ago. I think it's too big for a helmet, aeasthetically, so I'm using a bar mount. I do have my more basic Chinese imports sitting at home and after this incident I'll
    probably ziptie or velcro one on my helmets.

    @ SRD

    Whilst there's no bloodshed, I can totally understand you hesitating before watching, being a parent. I don't want this dangerous thug around me, let alone children. At least if you don't watch the video, you know what he and his vehicle look like, to give you a chance to avoid.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. minus six
    Member

    Scotland's still full of tubes like this.

    They are everywhere, and in this backward country of unpoliced roads, "No man with a good car needs to be justified"

    I'd have backed off just like you in this situation..

    But *if* it had been preceded by a dangerous close pass at speed... well then i really don't bother to worry about who's got the biggest muscles.

    That's my problem, admittedly.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. Darkerside
    Member

    Not wanting to in any way sidetrack the conversation from this serious incident, but how are you finding the Virb...?

    I've discovered that my new EDGE can act as a fancy remote control, which is a big bonus given my recumbent mount would be by my feet...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. Focus
    Member

    @ Darkerside

    I'll start a new thread in the 'Stuff' forum with my initial thoughts.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. Focus
    Member

    @ bax

    I'm not a big guy in the slightest, but playing ice hockey makes me braver than I really ought to be. I abhor violence but I will challenge what I think is wrong, sometimes to my cost.

    I tried to stop a thief in the shop I managed (solo, mostly) because he was stealing from me, not my boss, in my mind. Had one of my teeth shattered as a result. It doesn't stop me sticking up for myself against a bully, but usually means I back off even if it makes the thug think he's won. I'll make sure he doesn't think it was easy though.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. Kenny
    Member

    That's why I never bother saying anything to drivers

    Yeah, me too (these days). I used to be the opposite, but it never tends to end well. I think I can remember twice where it ended not badly, but never positively.

    To be honest, I wouldn't have tried to squeeze up that side of his vehicle. I think you should have waited behind. He had quite clearly positioned his vehicle in that space to prevent you passing up the side, and I believe he was not in the wrong to do so, because the cycle lane did not have a solid line on it. I'm not suggesting what he then did (swearing, getting out of the car etc) was valid of course, but I don't think you were right to claim he shouldn't have had his car there.

    Someone feel free to correct me on that, of course! I think I learnt that on CCE, but maybe I'm misunderstanding / misremembering / making it up.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. SRD
    Moderator

    Legally he is allowed to cross the dotted line. They are advisory cycle lanes.

    But why would he? Everyone else was leaving it clear.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. Kenny
    Member

    Hmm. Rule #140:

    https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/multilane-carriageways-133-to-143

    I'm thinking it's still debatable. From my recollection of that junction, it splits into lanes, and he needs to be on the left to allow cars to pass on the right to enter the right hand lane. I don't think it's clear-cut here, but personally I think it's 50/50 as to whether he's right or wrong. Just my opinion, of course, YMMV.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    Loads of drivers do that there. I normally have a good rant, then use the pavement to get to the front. Never had any real bother there though.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. neddie
    Member

    He is indicating to turn left.

    If driving myself & turning left, I will most times drive over an advisory cycle lane to prevent cyclists going up the inside just before I'm about to turn.

    I probably wouldn't do that if I had to stop anyway though.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. SRD
    Moderator

    " drive over an advisory cycle lane to prevent cyclists going up the inside just before I'm about to turn."

    Surely your indicators are there to communicate to cyclists that you are turning?

    What if cyclist also turning left?

    Why shouldn't cyclist overtake you and turn or continue?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. stiltskin
    Member

    The problem with that junction is that there is a very short traffic light phase. The road itself is marked as being two lanes and if there is a queue then both lanes need to be occupied if people are going to get through. However the inside lane also has the cycle path marked in it and that is why difficulties arise. The road itself is wide enough for two cars, it splits into two lanes, but there is an advisory cycle path which prevents two lanes forming. This equals potential conflict. The driver is an obvious thug, but basically this is down to poor design.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. Focus
    Member

    @ Kenny

    "To be honest, I wouldn't have tried to squeeze up that side of his vehicle. I think you should have waited behind. He had quite clearly positioned his vehicle in that space to prevent you passing up the side, and I believe he was not in the wrong to do so, ."

    Your choice, of course, not to have made your way past, however the cycle lane is there for the purpose of filtering, so to intentionally block it, as he absolutely did was in essence a form of bullying, in my opinion. He should not (again, IMO) be trying to prevent me from using the lane set aside for my use. Besides, Rule 140 of the Highway Code says "Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable." It was avoidable, as evidenced by all the vehicles in front managing to avoid doing so (as SRD said), and still allowing room for the other lane of vehicles.

    "... I don't think you were right to claim he shouldn't have had his car there."

    I didn't actually say he had no right to be there (although I believe that to be true in this case, from Rule 140). I merely pointed out he was blocking the lane, which he was, and was trying to make my way past when he blasted the horn and came out to threaten me. Had he not done so, I'd have continued making my way to the ASL, hoping I'd pointed out a problem to a reasonable human being.

    @ edd1e_h & SRD

    As the cycle lane is a filter to the front, it is not unreasonable to expect it to be left clear (to the level of complying with Rule 140) to enable riders to make it to the ASL, otherwise it's pointless it even being there (whether you're in favour of ASLs, it's there to be used). I wouldn't have filtered if the traffic was moving - I never do that, except for the odd occasion when the traffic starts moving when I'm already filtering, in which case I will stop if it's the safest option (which it normally will be).

    It's not the most pleasant junction, so I want to be at the front and more visible rather than hidden amongst 2 lanes of traffic.

    @ stiltskin

    Regarding this particular junction, there are times I'd agree with you as far as two proper lanes of traffic being difficult to form. That is, if there are wider vehicles such as lorries there. Then, I realise - much as I might not like it - that it might be impractical to leave the cycle lane free for its intended use. But on this occasion there were no wide vehicles and everyone else but the Neanderthal had managed to stay clear. He just chose not to.

    I feel it's clear that I didn't go seeking conflict - clear voice but not shouting, use of "mate", and trying to continue on my way until thug went all prehistoric. Some of you would have stayed behind, and that's fine. I just passed on information and wanted to go where I was entitled to. Some moron took exception to that in the most extreme way.

    He could have left it at blasting the horn or telling me to fornicate away (unacceptable and childish though they both were), but he chose to leave his vehicle and threaten physical violence and that's the line he most certainly shouldn't have crossed.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. Focus
    Member

    It's a pity this numpty didn't have a business name on his vehicle. It would be so nice to give him some 'free publicity' ala the Secret Plumber.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Dear Sir/Madam

    I wish to bring your attention the above blog. I was the driver in question an yes I was in the cycle lane and in the wrong so I will apologise for this but what the blogger failed to say was that when he stopped to inform me I was in the cycle lane the first thing I noticed before I heard him was his hand coming through my open window this is when I beeped my horn and got out my car. So forgive me for losing my temper when I think someone is trying to steal my wallet and phone that were on the seat. I realised what happened after I approached him I felt a little embarrassed but again I was still angry at the same time. With this combination I used foul language, Which I apologise for, and went back to my car. The blogger then shouted something at me as I was getting in my car so I replied with look just go away but then he picks up something and it looked like he was going to throw something at my car so at this point I quickly moved to the front of my car to make sure he didn't throw anything. He then starts saying if you hit me I will call the police so I thought he was trying to antagonise me so I replied with phone the f***ing police then and went back in my car but what I see from this video he makes out like I am chasing him but when he turns round no one is there. This is because I was in my car. Then he tell another driver I was going to hit him and threatened him with violence.........complete lies and his video proves this.

    Now I will and do apologise for losing my temper and for using foul language but what I will not stand for is a heavily weighted sided story where the blogger was completely innocent and I am 100% in the wrong

    I would like a response to this email ASAP to rectify this complaint. I want the blog removed and all video and images of my vehicle and myself removed. I have sought out legal advice on this already and was advised to contact yourself and explain what happened and make a request for the blog, video and images of my car and myself to be removed. If you refuse my request I have been advised to hire legal representation to take this to the courts. I have also been advised to tell you that I have made screenshots of the page in question as evidence.

    Thank you for your time

    "

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    This thread is closed.

    Posted 10 years ago #

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