No more all day bus lanes and motorcycles will be allowed to use them
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Bus lanes to change
(321 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Gotta love the EEN
“There’s the added advantage that a bus is never going to get stuck behind a scooter or a motorcycle, whereas getting stuck behind a cyclist does slow a bus down.”
Posted 9 years ago # -
Easing regulation and allowing (yet more) motor vehicles into bus lanes are a great reason why these things make poor cycle facilities. The justification sounds a little bit like Edinburgh is giving up on trying to get people out of their cars as a way to ease congestion (congestion specifically mentioned in the article) and is now going for the belt-widening vs. dieting approach to dealing with an expanding waistline.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Drivers reticent to use the bus lane even when allowed was the greatest thing about Edinburgh Greenways (together with the wonderful Lothian Buses training around cyclists).
Now we are going to have motorcycles whizzing by at 40mph, even if you try to hold primary.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Robyvecchio indeed the Greenways are now better thought of as taxi-and-motorbike expressways
Posted 9 years ago # -
"a bus is never going to get stuck behind a scooter or a motorcycle, whereas getting stuck behind a cyclist does slow a bus down."
So how come I always get slowed down behind buses? What is this paradox?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I've never understood the point of part time bus lanes. They are there for buses to get through when it's busy. When it's not busy there's no reason for cars to use them, as it's not busy. And, as a car driver I find trying to read the sign, look at the time and work out if it's during the hours of operation is distracting and therefore dangerous.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"When it's not busy there's no reason for cars to use them, as it's not busy"
Quite!
Cynical as I am about CEC and it's desire to 'not inconvenience motorists', the revised times doesn't surprise me.
Allowing motor bikes in DOES.
I would have thought the consultation would have more people saying bad idea than good.
In any case, a city serious about increasing the numbers of people cycling wouldn't have contemplated it...
Posted 9 years ago # -
I don't often cycle in the bus lanes these days but I hope anyone who experiences a bad motorcyclist will complain to the council as part of the trial. Of course it may be better just to mention potential conflict.
“When a bus lane isn’t in operation, you should use the whole road,” Neil Greig of the Institute of Advanced Motorists said. “Many drivers in Edinburgh are reticent to do that, especially since we've had camera enforcement of the bus lanes.
So why aren't they also reluctant to speed when we've had camera enforcement of speeding?
Posted 9 years ago # -
the consultation that I went to included reps from taxi and motorbike groups, but no one from private hire. unsurprisingly perhaps, there was strong feeling against letting private hires in, but less against motorbikes.
Posted 9 years ago # -
One of the biggest issues I find as a car driver is the bus lanes force extended queueing at junctions and people inevitably undertake in the operational bus lane. Likewise many of the lanes run for only a few tens of metres before turning back into lane/parking/junction.
There are plenty of places where at peak times I think the bus lane is causing the congestion. Having two feeder lanes which are well marked for which one you need (no longer the straight on followed by right turn arrow you often see) may work better.
As a cyclist, I find I'm constantly pulling around buses, the lanes are badly potholed and there are too many parked cars. The cynic in me wonders if this plan is an opportunity to create non rush hour parking spaces on the lanes.
To really work for congestion, they would be better in longer stretches and traffic light controlled with overhead lights. If there aren't many buses, cars could be allowed to use a section yet when the traffic is heavy, the lane becomes active. I'd have that in combination with dedicated cycle lanes!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Allowing motor bikes in DOES.
They are a real minority of road users though. Need to read article to see if this is the thin end of wedge.
Motorbikers are disliked as least as much as cyclists so this should keep them unpopular!
Posted 9 years ago # -
A backwards step, but it may at least lead the Cooncil to acknowledge that buslanes are not the unalloyed boon for cyclists that they seem to claim (see the Leith Walk proposals.
Buses and cyclists may move at the same average speed, but they do so with a different speed profile. Put them both in the same space and they will slow each other down. Best result for all concerned is to give each their own segregated lanes...
I presume this is in conjunction with the 20mph roll out, so I would hope that the cyclist/motorcylist speed differential should not be too great?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I presume this is in conjunction with the 20mph roll out, so I would hope that the cyclist/motorcylist speed differential should not be too great?
Yeah, but...
Aren't the bus lane roads the ones that the council is determined to keep as 30 and 40mph zones because they are "arterial" and not residential, even if there are houses the length of them?!
As a cyclist, I find I'm constantly pulling around buses, the lanes are badly potholed and there are too many parked cars.
Quite! EEN seems to overlook that most bus-lanes out of hours are de facto car parks and therefore aren't providing extra road capacity (I cite London Road outside my front room as an example of this.) Also agree on the potholed bit and I personally blame the buses for this, otherwise why does nearly every bus stop have 2 deep bus-axle spaced indentations in the road surface outside the stop, with accompanying waves of tarmac and debris onto the pavement. Someone should have done the maths when they ordered the replacement of the entire LB fleet of buses which low-floor examples which were 50% heavier and significantly more powerful than the olde ones.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Leith walk bus lane is turning into a giant car park already, although there remain plenty of parking bays unused. No enforcement at all during the works, so why will it be any different when they finish. At least the surface will be better for a while.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So much for Leith Walk becoming an "exemplar commuting corridor" or whatever it is Yomper Broon called it. Exemplar motor racing track, more like, especially downhill.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So private hire cars are not allowed to use bus lanes at the moment? The amount that do, under the guise of sort-of being a taxi, had me fooled.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Comment piece from the EEN:
"Drivers pay a lot in taxes for the privilege of motoring in Britain and also face the risk of not unsubstantial fines for even minor transgressions of road and parking rules."
"If the rule changes are accompanied by drivers brushing up on their highway etiquette, then tailbacks on some of our busiest roads should become a little less common at off-peak times."
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
tailbacks on some of our busiest roads should become a little less common at off-peak times
"
Where are these roads that have bus lanes and off-peak tailbacks? (Not including 'tailbacks' caused by the necessity of traffic lights at junctions/crossroads.)
When I say "necessity" of course that assumes no-one wants lights turned off outside 'rush' hours...
Posted 9 years ago # -
and Where are these roads with the peak tailbacks when the schools are on holiday? Oh, look, they aren't many!... Does that not give a clue that providing infrastructure that allow kids to cycle to school, rather than be driven, would solve many problems...
Posted 9 years ago # -
@shuggiet, although I agree that no kid should be without a safe route to cycle/walk to school I suspect that outside the immediate vicinity of schools the holiday effect has more to do with parents not driving to work than school.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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They are resurfacing Drumbrae South at the moment and the green (paint on top) bus lane is being replaced by tarmac with the red stones already in it.
Easier maintenance I assume, but is a bit harder to see. I assume when they put the full road markings on it will be easier to differenciate.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So. The red chip thing. Moderately visible in dry bright conditions. But once there is surface water or darkness, the red chips are pretty much invisible. And for a specific part of the road surface to register with the majority of drivers, it's got to be a very clear contrast.
I understand the low-cost/maintenance intention, but in practice it's turning out to be a waste of time and money.
Maybe a few photos in a variety of conditions will illustrate the problem.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I have a response of the Strategic Planning Manager through my councillor:
Dear Councillor Blacklock
BUS/CYCLE LANES
Thank you for your e-mail, dated 27 August 2014, regarding the above subject.
I can confirm that the Council has decided to promote temporary Traffic Regulation Orders to trial the standardising of bus lane operating hours in the city. This would reduce the operating hours of all-day bus lanes (currently 7.30am-6.30pm on Monday to Friday, 8.30am-6.30pm on Saturday) to match those of the city’s ‘peak only’ bus lanes (7.30-9.30am and 4-6.30pm) for an 18 month trial period. Should this prove successful this change would be made permanent.
The Council is continuing to deliver improved cycle facilities including off-road cycle paths, cycle lanes and cycle crossings as part of our Active Travel Action Plan. The delivery of the ‘family-friendly’ network in particular will join up the existing sections of off-road cycleways. In 2014/15 the Council has committed to spending 7% of its’ Transport budget on cycling and combined with external funding this will total over £3M.
I hope that you find our response helpful.
Yours sincerely
Brian Sharkie
Strategic Planning Manager
I think it's just a lot of hot air. If the problem is standardisation, Should have gone the other way, making them all all-day.
Posted 9 years ago # -
One for the hive mind...
I am contacting you to notify you of the upcoming trials and I would appreciate any information/suggestions/feedback relating to the trials, especially suggestions/comments regarding measures for assessing the trials. Other surveys/analysis to be undertaken are traffic volumes and speed surveys, air quality, accidents and parking infringements. Do you have any other suggestions for surveys/analysis?
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/1632/edinburgh_set_to_be_first_scottish_city_to_permit_motorbikes_in_bus_lanes">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/1632/edinburgh_set_to_be_first_scottish_city_to_permit_motorbikes_in_bus_lanes
Posted 9 years ago # -
As long as any van late for work is still allowed to use them as a 40mph shortcut I'm cool with the change.
Posted 9 years ago # -
bus lanes are not cycle infra, so this is all irrelevant.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Agreed but the question is what can be assessed to show the (negative) impact on cyclists.
Traffic volumes will be one measure. But what else?
Personally I ride in the middle of the bus lane to stop close passes. I'm not looking forward to motorbikes squeezing past when I least expect it - perhaps I should count the number of times.
Posted 9 years ago # -
bus lanes are not cycle infra, so this is all irrelevant.
Indeed, but on occassions I am a bus passenger so there is a personal relevance here. And on many more occassions I am obliged to cycle on them for complete and utter lack of an alternative.
There's a definite head in the sand / up the posterior attitude somewhere in the depths of one of the council's departments that refuses to accept we're in a mainly mediaeva-Georgio-Victorio-Edwardian (i.e. pre-motor car) city centre (post-infernal combustion suburbia excluded) with strictly limited road widths/capacities and that seems to think they can buy their way out of their other failures to get the city moving by de-prioriting the greenways off-peak. This is the department that thinks it can try and tackle the city's poor record on atmospheric pollutants (which we have to breathe if we're on the road or off it on a path) by an rather bonkers vehicular prioritisation approach to road/junction layout in a fruitless attempt to decrease pollution by decreasing idle/linger time of all those single occupant vehicles.
Personally I think "we" have a vested interest in these sorts of things and this retrograde thinking needs resisted on all fronts; rolling back on established measures to attempt to reduce car dependence and improve public transport times aren't a million miles removed from a council burning the paint off of "cycle lanes" to "create capacity" or downgrade crossing priority to "smooth the traffic flow" - or spend cycling budgets on in-filling vehicle-induced potholes.
Posted 9 years ago #
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