CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Council actually wants cycling in Edinburgh
(40 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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'Cycling' or economic development?
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13686#post-168872
Posted 9 years ago # -
Oh - cycling of course !
Aye, right ... but it will be interesting to see the turn-out at any of the events, should they happen.
Don't know why they want to do a ToB stage "through the city" though.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Don't know why they want to do a ToB stage "through the city" though."
Will be due to the perceived (or real) benefits of the worldwide TV coverage of the 'iconic' city.
Helicopter shots of the start at the Castle. Swoop down the the historic High Street. Then head to East Lothian? Return via Midlothian?
Or go west and try the Forth Bridges?
Posted 9 years ago # -
They'll do the helo shots wherever they go. They should seek route advise from the
sadistichardcore Musselburgh man - believed to be a dentist - who organises some pretty mean audax rides out and back .. Redstone Rigg et al[i]Posted 9 years ago # -
Do we have any roads without potholes that folk could race on?
I am hoping that money is magically found for this as we may actually get some roads that are suitable to cycle on.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Given the state of Comiston Road, I think the Council should put in a cheeky bid for the mountain bike world cup as well.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I hope they include the "Paris-Roubaix section" aka Thistle Street.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Disappointing that on a cycling forum the comments on this and the other thread relating to the story are largely negative or at least ambivalent. In fact one or two comments are bordering on NIMBYism. Whilst it is 'sport' on bikes it still raises awareness of cycling in general. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but shouldn't we welcome the fact CEC are investing in bringing these events?
Posted 9 years ago # -
"welcome the fact CEC are investing in bringing these events?"
As much as I'd enjoy the TdB going past my house, I'd rather they invested in making the road surfaces better for those who cycle it daily, rather than a peloton on it once. But if they had to fix it for the peloton, then I'd take that too.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm thrilled.
As long as it comes out of 'sports' budget.
Posted 9 years ago # -
deckard112 - I not sure I agree. There are loads of things I would rather see the Council invest their scarce funds in - including actual cycle infrastructure.
I'm not sure about awareness raising either. There can't be a person in Edinburgh who isn't aware that cycling is a transport (or sporting) option. Cyclists are a very common sight in the city and the city's most famous sportsman is a cyclist. For all its faults, the city's cycle infrastructure is also pretty visible - e.g. numerous ASLs.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I agree with SRD and Morningsider.
And I speak as someone who took a day off work to go and watch the Commonwealth Games Time Trial...Posted 9 years ago # -
The reasons for backing and funding the bid will be listed in the report attached to the relevant committee minutes. These will be targets set in policy and planning.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"As long as it comes out of 'sports' budget."
Actually I don't think that's the right place.
This is the council that can't 'afford' to paint white lines on well-used football pitches.
I'm moderately confident it won't come out of the cycling (as transport) budget.
Which should mean 'economic development'. The council used to have a Department called that, but I assume it's Corporate Services these days(?)
So it's about maintaining/raising Edinburgh's image/profile.
More hotel rooms occupied, meals eaten etc. all perfectly legitimate for a council to "invest" in. Calculating the return on such investment is the hard part.
If cycling in general and sport in particular is part of Edinburgh's USP, then there is a lot to do - and a lot to point fingers at.
Edinburgh's main world famous cyclist is only famous because the City built a velodrome 44 years ago.
If he'd been born a few years later it's unlikely that he would have become a track star.
Still, all that investment paid off.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@deckard112
I guess that I appreciate CEC doing whatever benefits the greatest number of the city's residents to the greatest degree. I understand that some people take great pleasure from having elite sporting events take place in their area, even though it's of little consequence to me. I understand that the Yorkshire TdF event was hugely enjoyed by all (apart from the stop to 'chat' with members of the aristocracy), and I like the Tour and have been to see it in its natural habitat.
I was saddened when London won the Olympics because I knew it would take money from Scottish budgets including that for grass roots sport and result in an overall drop in sports participation. I'd want to see very clear evidence that the Tour could get its jamboree here and back to France without damaging Edinburgh's finances. It seems likely to me that any additional activity attracted to Edinburgh by the Tour would be displaced from elsewhere rather than created de novo. Perhaps we could study the figures from the North of England before bidding to subsidise this rich event? You could even argue that the sight of whippets in spandex will put off mature and infant cyclists.
In short I quite like commercial circuses, but I prefer artisanal bread.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"It seems likely to me that any additional activity attracted to Edinburgh by the Tour would be displaced from elsewhere"
"
HOTEL occupancy in the Capital fell by almost five per cent during this summer’s Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, according to new figures.
"
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hotel-occupancy-down-during-commonwealth-games-1-3576694
Posted 9 years ago # -
I agree with deckard 112 that this forum can get a bit moany At times and that moaning about a cycling event coming to edinburgh is a bit odd.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thanks to Cyclingmollie for suggesting that we check the Council's papers on this proposal, see:
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/44888/item_73_tour_of_britain_and_tour_series
I am not being critical of council officials here - but the "research" provided by the event promoters and repeated in the report is verging on nonsense. Particularly:
"One of the key points to emerge from this process is that visiting the Tour of Britain has inspired attendees to cycle more regularly. In Olympic year 2012, 72% of the Tour’s attendees reported this effect; in 2013, the figure was 67%."
72%, 67% - sounds great, but "inspired to cycle more regularly" doesn't really mean anything. I am regularly inspired to do things (often after considerable contemplation in the pub) that fortunately never come to pass.
While the figures for media exposure sound good. I'm not really sure of the benefits in practice. If every place visited by a major cycle tour gets millions of pounds of free coverage what does this mean? There are loads of televised cycle tours - how does the exposure of one location stack up against all the other locations visited by cycle tours over a year. What if it's raining on the day? What is coverage on ITV4 really worth? Does Edinburgh really lack media coverage?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Its worth is generally measured in terms of the cost of buying that much advertising. At least that's how our "comms" people value mentions in newspapers. Voodoo. Actually, that's a bit unfair on voodoo.
Posted 9 years ago # -
When I did the budget balancing thing I went for fewer festivals but this appears to have been ignored and now we are getting some rubbish cycling event costing money
Posted 9 years ago # -
"moaning about a cycling event coming to edinburgh is a bit odd"
Not at all.
It's not the event that's being "moaned" about. (I think healthy scepticism is a better term.)
It's -
a) the idea anything to do with 'cycling', *must* be a good idea.
b) that sport cycling and 'utility' cycling and interchangeable in the minds of some people who don't 'understand'. Extreme version 'why do you want cycle lanes? - we've just fixed all the potholes for that cycle race'.
c) wariness about a cash-strapped council 'investing' in a prestigious(?) event in the hope of getting an even bigger one - in the hope that it will be good for the city and bring in tourists/jobs/inward investment.
I'm assuming you think that anyone who is a 'motorist' - or at least a motorsport fan - would want/expect CEC to try to get on the F1 circuit?
CEC didn't even want to put money into the Sky Ride - which the public could take part in, rather than just watch. Doesn't seem too keen on PoP either.
I am very sceptical about its priorities and see no reason to welcome an event that involves bicycles just because it involves bicycles - any more than I feel compelled to welcome badly designed/implemented cycle 'infrastructure' on the basis that it was 'better than no infrastructure'.
I would welcome a beer festival - with free beer - but I wouldn't expect the council to provide one just because it would be popular with locals and tourists.
The Yorkshire Grand Depart was great. Fabulous crowds for a sporting event that involved bicycles. Have local bike sales soared? Are many more people cycling to work? Will future tourism/inward investment repay the £50m investment?
Edinburgh is (sometimes) known as The Festival City. The 'arts' are of course not universally popular, but at least the Festival/Fringe happen every year bringing in tourists and money. Is Edinburgh planning to become a Sport City - or even a Cycle Sport City?
I suspect not. Glasgow has now become the home of track racing. A one-off 'once in a lifetime' starting point for a French race, doesn't strike me as having much to do with 'cycling'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@gembo
When I worked in the Chief Exec's Dept many moons ago, during the last Austerity Age, and was doing the budget balancing thing, I also went for fewer festivals (and there were fewer of them in them days). That was also ignored and some supported employment for people with learning disabilities got the chop. I've practically boycotted the festivals ever since. And all that economic impact, spin off, horse nonsense.Posted 9 years ago # -
I hate formula 1 not sure why you went for assuming anything there.
I like beer But at beer festivals do they still give you a wee half pint tumbler when you pay the over the odds admittance then you get a wee half pint of various ales? I prefer a pint. Moan, moan, mutter, mutter
Is there not a thread on here about everyone having a lovely time at the pearl Izumi event in April which I missed due to Empyema downgraded to pneumonia?
Posted 9 years ago # -
@insto, I only did the virtual budget. But I can be found asking quietly how much edinburgh invested in Icelandic banks (think they went more for spread betting) and why a local authority went for property speculation and why after all this culminated in a lovely but expensive HQ that they would sell if there were any buyers. And why the cats that made all these decisions are still running the show?
Posted 9 years ago # -
'I hate formula 1 not sure why you went for assuming anything there"
I think you just proved my point. You're not interested so don't see why CEC should be involved - bit like 'most people' who aren't interested in cycling so don't see any difference between cycling to work and racing.
"when you pay the over the odds admittance" - but CEC is paying for a 'free' cycle race. Why can't it pay for a FREE BEER festival??
"Is there not a thread on here about everyone having a lovely time at the pearl Izumi event in April'
Think so. Various people had fun cycling the course before the event (some on recumbents…) I had a nice chat with Chris Hoy. But I don't think there were that many spectators. Not really enough publicity. CEC's fault or the organisers??
Posted 9 years ago # -
The council minutes refer to the draft Physical Activity and Sport Strategy in support of the decision to finance events. Since it's a Culture and Sport policy document (I assume) it emphasises recreational cycling. Where it references other policies it recommends that the Council:
4. Review the overall walking and cycle route network and identify gaps to be filled.
5. Promote the city’s route/path network by better signage and by publishing relevant maps.
6. Work in partnership with Scottish Natural Heritage, Paths for All and neighbouring local authorities to build new strategic paths to join the city networks to the Pentlands, East Lothian and long distance routes.
7. Continue to develop locally based walking and cycling programmes.And that's it really. All the rest is about sport and exercise and activity levels and health benefits etc. No real sense that to get more people walking and cycling you have to lure them out of cars with excellent infrastructure. It's thinking about transport with a sport head on. It just doesn't work, as you say chdot.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"It just doesn't work, as you say chdot."
Thanks.
That's the (MY) problem. I've been 'saying' stuff for years (not just me obviously). Some things have changed/got better.
Edinburgh is better than most Scottish cities.
But, but, but.
Still miles/decades behind European 'best practice'. Now being overtaken by go-getting American cities.
Too many people in a position to do something 'don't get it', or (at best) say "yes but".
- can't take away parking
- got to balance needs of motorists and cyclists
- can't afford red surfacing
- can't do anything that pays-back longer than the five year political cycle
- senior 'health professionals' are more interested in expensive technology than presentation medicine
- how kids get to school is the parents' responsibility
Etc. etc.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I've been 'saying' stuff for years (not just me obviously). Some things have changed/got better.
I cycled from Musselburgh to Rutland Square last week. It was almost entirely off road apart from the section between St Leonards and Melville Drive and down Viewforth. It's getting better.
Policy wonk language is so bland - review, promote, work, continue. Imagine being passionate about change and after months of meetings ending up with a paragraph on page 43 of a report stored in the same building as the director.
If only we could fill potholes with words.
Posted 9 years ago #
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