CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Traffic Light Timings

(16 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by UtrechtCyclist
  • Latest reply from crowriver

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  1. UtrechtCyclist
    Member

    Does anybody know how the process of changing traffic light sequencing takes place?

    I'm going through a splurge of lobbying for small, easily fixable things that the council could do to improve the Meadows - Haymarket commute, and one thing that really slows me down is the Toucan crossing across the western approach road near Morrison Crescent.

    At present it takes around a minute for the lights to change after the button has been pressed (I will get proper data). This is far too slow, often I just bolt through any gaps in the cars.

    This absolutely isn't a pinch point for cars, in the morning all the drivers are heading north towards a traffic jam about a hundred metres north of the lights, and so stopping a greater number of cars at the toucan crossing wouldn't actually slow them down. I'm never alone crossing the road here, even at ten past seven in the morning, I guess quite a few pedestrians and cyclists access Haymarket this way despite the lack of signage of the route. So speeding up the crossing would improve the experience for pedestrians and cyclists without slowing down anyone.

    So back to the original question, how does the council change the timing sequence on a pedestrian crossing? Do they need to send engineers out, and if so is it a long, expensive job? Or does someone in a fancy control centre just type something into a keyboard? Would be nice to know what kind of job I'm lobbying for before I start lobbying.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. SRD
    Moderator

    You could either contact the relevant team or the cycling guys. Will be fascinating to hear what they say. Is the signal a dummy? Or just slow?

    I've only used it a few times, but would agree that it could be faster/more responsive. Have also seen several cars rush it on amber, so be careful....

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. HankChief
    Member

  4. chdot
    Admin

    "This absolutely isn't a pinch point for cars, in the morning all the drivers are heading north towards a traffic jam about a hundred metres north of the lights, and so stopping a greater number of cars at the toucan crossing wouldn't actually slow them down."

    True, but that's not how traffic engineers' minds work...

    "Or does someone in a fancy control centre just type something into a keyboard?"

    Possibly in places like that.

    Ask Lesley Hinds... (She's in favour of pedestrians.)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. slowcoach
    Member

    "that's not how traffic engineers' minds work..." We're not all the same! Some think differently. Eg Some signals have deliberately been put out of sequence to reduce capacity and discourage cars/improve conditions for pedestrians.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. Stickman
    Member

    It's an interesting point about timings balancing the needs of cars vs pedestrians/bikes.

    I know for sure that this isn't a new observation, but at the weekend I stood on Princes St at the corners of Frederick Street then Hanover Street. At each corner there must have been around 100 people waiting to cross. The lights take several minutes to go green for pedestrians and in that time around 30 cars went by in total, most of which had only one occupant.

    If the council was serious about reducing journey times for the greatest number of people then these lights should default to a green for pedestrians and only change to green for cars at intervals.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. twq
    Member

    The ped/bike crossing on Fishwives Causeway to cross Sir Harry Lauder Rd takes ages. No real reason to not change this to an instant switch.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    "No real reason to not change this to an instant switch"

    Of course there's the default position of being red until a car approaches...

    (Extra default position - 'and the driver has to get out to press the button')

    Lights could be programmed (OK plus suitable detector hardware) so that if a car approached at or below the legal speed the lights would change and not slow the car/driver.

    Would be good in 20mph areas...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. panyagua
    Member

    If driverless cars are on their way, then I would have thought it should be possible to apply some of the same technologies to traffic signals - for example detecting the volume and speed of approaching traffic (motorised and human powered, wheeled and shod) and make suitable adjustments. I've lost count of the times I've waited for ages (on foot) at junctions such as Princes St/Lothian Road with dozens of other peds, while hardly any vehicles come past. As noted above, why should the default always be 'go' for cars?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "I've lost count of the times I've waited for ages (on foot) at junctions such as Princes St/Lothian Road with dozens of other peds, while hardly any vehicles come past."

    Of course an extra/new factor is 'waiting for trams'.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Of course an extra/new factor is 'waiting for trams'.

    A number of the new Princes Street crossings have an infuriating setting where every light on the junction (vehicle and pedestrian) are held at red, so nobody can go anywhere. I always suspect it was to do with trams, even though it happens when there are none to be seen.

    Damn the trams and just go.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. neddie
    Member

    The simple solution to all these slow responsivity ped crossings is to block off more roads to cars. Now that's real priority to peds.

    The lights at Market St/Mound have an appallingly long wait for peds. 50 or more can be waiting while a handful of cars go through.

    And have you tried to cross from Brougham sT to Lady Grey @ Tollcross whilst obeying the green man (as you *have* to when with young children) - it will take you up to 6 minutes to cross the 4 carriageways

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. steveo
    Member

    Of course an extra/new factor is 'waiting for trams'.

    I always suspect it was to do with trams, even though it happens when there are none to be seen.

    Definitely is. I spent ages on the bus the other day waiting at a straight on light on Princes St. Turns out the right hand light going up Fredrick St and the straight on light are linked but the right turn could not go because the west bound tram approaching, so nothing East Bound was moving either.

    What a person could see but the computers couldn't cope with is that the tram was stuck at the junction with Charlotte St due to cars.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. slowcoach
    Member

    Was this, from the Active Travel Action Plan, followed up on?
    "Develop an Urban Traffic Control (UTC) strategy/action plan to increase provide priority to pedestrians at traffic signals (eg pedestrian phase delivered at next signal stage at quieter times of day). Pilot at one or more junctions by the end of 2011. Apply similar principles at stand-alone traffic signals."

    Re UtrechtCyclist's question, I guess most of the signals are controlled centrally, but others, especially remote from other signals, will be standalone? Some standalone signals would need visits on-site to re-programme the controller.

    Google found this cache but the link to CoEC website dint't find the original.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. bdellar
    Member

    I'm sure when they were adjusting the Porty High Street lights, they had engineers out to do it. You'd hope that more modern ones could be adjusted remotely though!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. crowriver
    Member

    Is the crossing on a bus route? If so, you've no chance.

    I tried to get the two=stage crossing on the way to my children's school adjusted so the green man stayed on for longer: as it is there's barely enough time to cross the four lanes of traffic going south, as the southernmost green man stays on for insufficient time.

    The response was that this part of the crossing was only on for a short time to "aid bus priority", despite the fact that, at the time, only two peak time express services travelled that way (now changed due to Lothian Country Buses 104). I found it a poor excuse as the vast majority of bus services were travelling on the other part of the junction, where the green man stayed on for significantly longer. Nevertheless the distinct impression was "go away, wee man, you'll no get anything oot of us except this officious letter".

    So if it's on a bus route, forget it: they won't be changing the timings.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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