CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Work starts on new £35m Boroughmuir High School"
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Posted 7 years ago #
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Almost £80 million has already been spent constructing cutting-edge facilities at James Gillespie’s and Boroughmuir high schools. But the secondaries are too small to cope with rising pupil numbers, figures show, and now a £7.2m teaching annexe needs to be built to house the extra students – a move even the city’s education leader admitted “comes across a bit mad”.
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“The Scottish Government needs to step in with more funding to make sure that all school pupils are able to get a place at their catchment school. Councillor Jason Rust, Edinburgh’s Tory education spokesman, added: “It is quite incredible that we are in this situation with brand new buildings, yet a need for add-on parts already. “There is a clear inference in the report that the new Boroughmuir for instance will be at capacity from opening and yet there appears to be no budgetary consideration of this. The council really needs to get a handle on this situation with more informed predictions and also we need to see attainment levels rise across the board to reduce pressure on certain schools.”
A report set to go before councillors next month identifies a £10.5m funding shortfall in the cash needed to respond to rising school rolls in the immediate future. But this does not include the cost of creating additional capacity at Stockbridge Primary School – which officials think may be required – or the need to build a new school on the Waterfront to cope with ongoing housing developments. It also excludes any costs associated with constructing a new school in south Edinburgh, which represents an extra £12.7m.
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Posted 7 years ago # -
They could always use the old Boroughmuir school building as the annex...
Also, I noticed they've put the top layer of Tarmac down on the Viewforth bridge. Maybe it will reopen soon?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"They could always use the old Boroughmuir school building as the annex..."
They could do almost anything - except (apparently) redraw the catchment areas.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I seem to recall there are schools across the city which are well below capacity. It only seems to be the certain catchments which are full.
Instead of spending all these millions on annexes, a far cheaper solution would be to review catchment areas. It would be interesting to see what happened to property prices in, say Morningside if some of the children there were part of the Firrhill HS catchment instead of Boroughmuir. Similarly if the Boroughmuir catchment ended at the canal, that portion to the north west being transferred to Tynecastle HS.
Also the Gaelic Medium Education unit at James Gillespies HS is creating problems for catchment pupils as it takes children from across Edinburgh and the Lothians. The council needs to bite the bullet and move this unit to Tynecastle, as they proposed some time ago. Then we'll see the true picture of parental enthusiasm for their children being educated in the Gaelic language.
Naturally both courses of action are political hot potatoes and have been postponed until the new administration takes office in the City Chambers*. If the SNP take control it will be interesting to see how they deal with these issues.
* - Though to be fair it is not for want of council officers' recommendations. I note that catchment reviews have taken place in Portobello primary schools due to the newfound popularity of Towerbank PS, which had a new extension recently.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Also, I noticed they've put the top layer of Tarmac down on the Viewforth bridge. Maybe it will reopen soon?
Canal access would be good especially. Residents don't want this as through route though fro cars. One reason being that the traffic lights will result in backed up traffic along St Peter's Place. This blocks access to McNeil St, Horne Terrace etc.
Flats getting built opposite shop means lots of road blockages at moment but they should be finished soon.Posted 7 years ago # -
"Residents don't want this as through route though fro cars."
But Yeaman Place/Merchiston Ave residents donb't want it closed, because the cars just go that way instead.
(I'm undecide, though leaning towards closed. would like to see data rather than anecdotes for both claims).
Posted 7 years ago # -
I just wrote 'the idea that this street is somehow a special case needs to be challenged.' on the Roseburn thread ;-)
So I'm in danger of arguing one thing for one part of the city etc.... !Viewforth will never be two way at bridge now. So there will be a knock on as people weigh up the ros and cons of siting at traffic lights on bridge and then again at Gilmore Place versus going round Yeaman.
The school need to get 2000+ onto campus in a short space of time so I expect chaos as even if only 10% use cars to get there. Bikes of course should be polualr but this school is at edge of its catchment area.Posted 7 years ago # -
far cheaper solution would be to review catchment areas.
Yes, as part of the never-ending saga I had a look at catchments around Edinburgh. Why on earth is Roseburn Primary a feeder school for Craigmount (4 miles away) when Tynecastle is 1 mile away? Similar situations for other schools as well.
(I don't have kids so don't have personal experience of wanting to get your kids into a "good" school)
Posted 7 years ago # -
Can we please keep the Gaelic schooling out of this debate? Bad planning by the council shouldn't be a reason to make life even more difficult for those who do want Gaelic-medium education for their children.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Can we please keep the Gaelic schooling out of this debate?"
Think one problem here is prejudice, hearsay and 'evidence'.
Bad planning in Education Edinburgh?
Surely not!
"
A report set to go before councillors next month identifies a £10.5m funding shortfall in the cash needed to respond to rising school rolls in the immediate future. But this does not include the cost of creating additional capacity at Stockbridge Primary School – which officials think may be required – or the need to build a new school on the Waterfront to cope with ongoing housing developments. It also excludes any costs associated with constructing a new school in south Edinburgh, which represents an extra £12.7m.
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Not that long since Stockbridge was one of a lot of schools proposed for closure.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Not just education, I suppose. While education is dealing with school places at Boroughmuir and JGHS, planning approves student housing hand over fist, making tenement-heavy areas like Marchmont and Bruntsfield less attractive to BTL landlords and freeing them up for families, I would posit.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"making tenement-heavy areas like Marchmont and Bruntsfield less attractive to BTL landlords and freeing them up for families"
Must be a factor.
HMO rules and general economics of landlording will be having an effect.
In 'the past' (maybe 30 odd years ago) it was 'normal' (for those who could afford it) to move away from city centres (even in Ed) to 'the suburbs'.
Clearly Edinburgh never had much of an 'inner city' like many cities, so a lot of families have always stayed a mile or two from Princes Street, but I think even more are keen to now - 'good schools' helps.
Whether CEC could have predicted the numbers more accurately is an open question, but the whole business of 'parental choice' and resistance to changing catchment areas - which (literally) at the margins affect house prices - don't help the politics of planning.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The private halls being thrown up around the city are overpriced*, tiny and far away from the conventional centres of George Sq and King's Buildings. In my experience few British students use them and I would still to this day suggest most British students at UofE go the 1st year halls > 2nd year onwards Marchmont route.
There are problems with letting, not least landlord focused companies like Grant Management who won't spend a penny in repairs, but at least you get a good size place for an ok price and some life experience in running your own affairs.
* Typically £150-£200 per week. Same sort of price as renting in Quartermile...
Posted 7 years ago # -
Yes, the parental choice thing is pretty insidious (saying that as a Craiglockhart parent daily observing the terrible struggles of middle-class parents in the Tynecastle catchment). Two anecdotes.
1) The whole moving to Edinburgh thing occurred well after the P1 registration deadlines. When we arrived in August with a P1-aged child, we had to take what was available. The only school within reasonable distance with places available was Dalry. Surely nothing to do with it being highly diverse…
2) "catchment areas - which (literally) at the margins affect house prices" – the difference between the prices of comparable family-sized flats either side of Harrison Park (Tynecastle v. Boroughmuir) is about the same as getting two kids through private secondary. Invisible hand innit.
Posted 7 years ago # -
My impression (limited experience) is that Tynecastle is actually ok - just not as 'popular' as some that figure higher in academic league tables.
Andrew Burns' son went there from Craiglockhart.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Bad planning by the council shouldn't be a reason to make life even more difficult for those who do want Gaelic-medium education for their children."
How is moving the GME unit to Tynecastle going to "make life even more difficult "? Why should Gillespie's HS be overcrowded when Tynecastle HS is under capacity?
As for bad planning, the transfer of GME to Tynecastle was first mooted at least six years ago. I've read the reports from council officers recommending this. It came up again as a proposal recently. Unsurprisingly, lobbying campaigns were launched to put a stop to any such proposals. So it's much more to do with political pressure than planning. I also understand the new head at Gillespie's has children in the GME at the school so perhaps not much will change until they leave, despite the overcrowding. I don't think there's any doubt that some parents of GME pupils are playing the system in order to get a guaranteed place at Gillespie's despite living a long way from the catchment. Oh a free bus pass to get to school too. Of course even suggesting such a thing in any public arena is enough for the opprobrium of said parents and their supporters to be cast upon the person making the suggestion.
Similarly the lack of a catchment review for Boroughmuir HS or Bruntsfield PS would seem to be mostly attributable to political pressure. After all if you've paid the premium to buy property in the catchment as an investment alternative to private school fees, the prospect of losing out financially as a result of catchment review must be galling.
Posted 7 years ago # -
> How is moving the GME unit to Tynecastle going to "make life even more difficult"?
Tynecastle doesn't have the staff or expertise to run GME (they do teach Gaelic as a second language but that's completely different). I don't really think one can seriously suggest that the disruption such a move would involve, including potentially loss of staff (not like there's lots of those teachers around), is trivial and would not create difficulties.
In any case, of course you're right that many parents choose GME because it offers (among other things) the option of going to a 'good' school, and so many of those whose commitment to Gaelic is less strong than their commitment to what they see as getting the best education to their children (I would tend to agree that Tynecastle's bad reputation is overblown), and so such a move would lead to a drop off in numbers for GME. I just don't think it's such a good thing. The council has statutory duties both with respect to providing catchment places for all and with respect to promoting GME, and if the council screws up catchment planning it doesn't strike me as a positive that the remedy should be putting GME parents in a position where they have to compromise. Why is it that minority language users have to face some kind of ideological purity test ('oh, so you're not really into Gaelic, you're just playing the system')? </rant>
Posted 7 years ago # -
One could make a decent argument that minority (dead?) language speakers are being prioritised over those who just want a good education for their kids.
Lets face it Gaelic wasn't heavily spoken is most of the country, its a cause célèbre for the SNP to try and ensure continued nationalism.
The ridiculousness of putting train station names in Gaelic in regions where the language was never spoken is only trumped by the Executive issuing official documents in a language spoken exclusively by not a single soul.
Posted 7 years ago # -
But Yeaman Place/Merchiston Ave residents don't want it closed, because the cars just go that way instead.
I'd say there's a good case for closing Merchiston Ave to through traffic as well. Then at least cars will have to do a dog-leg up Yeaman Pl, then Viewforth (S).
The more awkward for cars to rat-run the better.
Posted 7 years ago # -
> its a cause célèbre for the SNP to try and ensure continued nationalism
It's really not. I commend to you this link which explains it better than I could https://basedrones.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/scots-gaelic-scots-law-and-scots-attitudes/
> One could make a decent argument that minority (dead?) language speakers are being prioritised over those who just want a good education for their kids.
So minority (definitely not dead) language speakers shouldn't get a good education for their kids unless they give up and play by the majority's rules? Sorry, it's an argument you can make, of course, but I wouldn't really call it decent. If we don't make additional provisions for minorities, they will just tend to shrink further because there's no advantage in persisting.
(Oh and PS – the only railway line in Scotland where you could make that argument is probably parts of the Borders Railway, but then again that's irrelevant – why shouldn't a Gaelic speaker in the Borders have at least a tiny little reminder their identity is at least a little bit valued?)
Posted 7 years ago # -
The ridiculousness of putting train station names in Gaelic in regions where the language was never spoken
I disagree with all of your post, but this bit is pretty much objectively wrong.There are very very few places in Scotland where Gaelic has never been the majority language. Basically just some parts of the Lothians. The number of train stations in these areas is in single digits.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I disagree with all of your post, but this bit is pretty much objectively wrong.
So when do we draw the line? English (Scots) took over in, what, the 14th century as the primary language, of the lowlands any way, and much of the rest of the country not long after.
600 years ago this was one of the languages spoken. Many of the towns on the rail network weren't formed or were hamlets with a dozen people. Hell Edinburgh was only formed a hundred or so years before Gaelic retreated north and west.
French was more widely spoken for much of modern history but we're not adding that to the road signs, it would probably be more useful.
So what benefit is there in adding this when less than a 2% of the population even cares?
Posted 7 years ago # -
So minority (definitely not dead) language speakers shouldn't get a good education for their kids unless they give up and play by the majority's rules?
Why would they not get a good education at Tynecastle? That's just flat ignorant.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Why would they not get a good education at Tynecastle? That's just flat ignorant."
Borderline Rule 1.
Point (as I understand it) is teaching in Gaelic, which is unlikely to be available in Edinburgh except wherever the Unit is.
Posted 7 years ago # -
So what benefit is there in adding this [Gaelic language road/rail signs] when less than a 2% of the population even cares?
Well, it doesn't really cost anything. And it gives a sense of identity. Plus it's nice to see the etymology of the how the modern English names formed. The tourists love it, and I'm sure that the benefit to tourism is greater than the cost, so why not?
Posted 7 years ago # -
@crowriver i'd suggest that a better target for your ire would be south morningside.
BPS teaches all its kids on site, has a steady stream of kids joining it every term, and may have the possibiolity of expansion into the former church adjacent to it once Boroughmuir quits its current site. I suppose the catchment could be drawn in smaller, so that some go to craiglockhart and some to tollcross and some to James gillespies, cutting down the middle of streets in many cases. anything more dramatic would presumably require renaming the school.Posted 7 years ago # -
Borderline Rule 1.
I wasn't calling the op ignorant just the sentiment but fair enough.
Point (as I understand it) is teaching in Gaelic, which is unlikely to be available in Edinburgh except wherever the Unit is.And the unit can't be in school with a lesser reputation and a falling roll?
Posted 7 years ago # -
> Why would they not get a good education at Tynecastle? That's just flat ignorant.
Also not what I said. For better or worse, moving from JGHS to Tynecastle would 1) lead to disruption in staffing and other arrangements (as per upthread); 2) likely lead to diminution in numbers (we can all agree it's terrible but it's the truth), potentially jeopardizing the viability of the whole exercise and certainly not contributing to a better learning environment; 3) break trust and send the wrong signal about the strength of the council's commitment to supporting GME. Just off the top of my head.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"And the unit can't be in school with a lesser reputation and a falling roll?"
Indeed, that's politics...
Posted 7 years ago #
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