They do indeed happen. Chew away.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
ped/cycle crashes do happen
(192 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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@insto - I'm sorry to hear this. I hope you recover well and quickly.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Hope you recover quickly. Watch that shoulder - they're delicate. I had a similar injury in the crash of summer 2013. It still gives me a bit of grief on occasion. After the initial rest phase, you need to build it back up with specific exercises. It may be worth going to a sports physio at some point.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@insto, was this (your opinion) avoidable if path was lit?
PS, get well soon - and see a doctor
Posted 9 years ago # -
@insto, sorry about this, hope you are on the mend soon. Any smell of liquor off the man in black? He sounds like he bounced back a little after colliding with you.?
Posted 9 years ago # -
@nelly
Avoidable probably in any of three conditions (1) if it had been less windy. I'd have been on the road. The wind is always from the side on that stretch so if it's blowy I use the path instead. (2) if I had had my main light on. My dynamo light does a good job of lighting the ground and I usually switch my main light on and off depending on other lighting. It has a broad beam so it's good on unlit roads and paths. But raindrops kick back a lot of light so I hadn't bothered putting it on because it was raining hard. And it's a really quiet path - two miles from the village. Wasn't expecting to meet anyone (3) if the path had been lit. Sure. The motorist who stopped said he'd just remarked to his missus how dark it was. Big heavy clouds so no light from the sky. Although unlike the golf course path, there's no real case for lighting this path. It's rarely used so you'd be lighting it for no one really.I suppose if the bloke hadn't been pissed he might have seen me coming. And I suppose if the path was more than 1m wide we might have just passed each other.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@insto, no comfort but I thought from your description of the way he got up and moved on that he was drunk but you were restrained in not mentioning this on blipfoto
Posted 9 years ago # -
Ow, crap. :-( Kudos to you for admitting to being the inadequately lit speeding clown on this occasion! Even the mighty may tumble (cf Madonna). I do hope the injury to your shoulder is not too bad. Has it been seen yet?
Posted 9 years ago # -
All the best for a full recovery. Combination of factors as you say.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@min
Touché. I'll accept that I had more light than I was using but I'm genuinely not sure that shining a very bright light into the rain would have helped me see better. Possibly, probably even. My decision was that my dynamo light is bright enough to get complained about on NEPN so usually good enough to see and be seen. But the main bright light is a different beast and I tend to use it sparingly. On that path, in the rain and into the faces of on-coming cars, you do need to think about switching it on. I use it on unlit roads but cover it if cars are coming and on unlit paths like the Dunfermline to Alloa path which is popular with dog walkers (who are also good at having lights themselves and on their dogs).Still, I don't want to come across as defensive. I'm happy to explain the circumstances and my choices. Strava says my speed was 19mph before the crash. I was just coasting down the path, slightly into the wind trying to keep the rain off my face. It was slower than usual - Strava has 25mph the night before and up to 30mph with a tail wind. I certainly wish it had been less than 19mph.
Been to the hospital and had it x-rayed. Collarbone is broken not dislocated.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Instography
Oooyabegger. Get well soon. Riding a bike means falling off. So far I tend to fall off once every five years and each fall has had its own particular physiognomy. Nobody's dead so no big deal this time. Hope to see you back in the saddle for PoP.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Arm in sling for a while?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Oooya indeed. Still, it is probably better to have a broken collarbone which ought to mend straightforwardly than some sort of freaky shoulder thing that means freaky physio to fix. Though that doesn't sound like much consolation when I write it down.. Get well soon.
As has been said many times before, black clad pedestrians in the dark are almost impossible to see, no matter how good your light is.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Ouch - mind you, on the plus side it's the sort of injury that marks you out as a cyclist.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Please tell me you're going to write an outraged article to Living Streets, or someone like that... ;-)
Hope it heals quickly and easily!
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
Touché. I'll accept that I had more light than I was using but I'm genuinely not sure that shining a very bright light into the rain would have helped me see better. Possibly, probably even. My decision was that my dynamo light is bright enough to get complained about on NEPN so usually good enough to see and be seen. But the main bright light is a different beast and I tend to use it sparingly. On that path, in the rain and into the faces of on-coming cars, you do need to think about switching it on. I use it on unlit roads but cover it if cars are coming and on unlit paths like the Dunfermline to Alloa path which is popular with dog walkers (who are also good at having lights themselves and on their dogs).
"Describes my approach to lighting almost to a T.
It is bad luck and sometime stuff just happens... Again better infrastructure would have prevented this but I fear that there are enough other smokescreens for that to be quietly ignored...
Best of luck with the recovery.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Get well soon Insto.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Hope you're better soon @insto.
In similar conditions in future, would you do anything differently?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Nasty Insto, As above the break will heal and it'll be fine. I'm surprised you managed how you did, when I broke my collar bone I was stretchered down the stairs with gas an air!
Posted 9 years ago # -
I was stretchered down the stairs with gas an air!
I had to stand in the admissions queue and fill out a form. I nearly fainted.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Oh, sounds bad, heal well @insto.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm surprised at how not very painful it is. I've had four Ibuprofen today and it's out of the sling. Hospital phoned today to say they'll want to see me in two weeks and that I should use and move the arm as much as possible to stop the joint stiffening up. But the swelling is going down and bringing the ends of the bone together which means more grinding than before but not painful. Or maybe I am literally insensitive.
"In similar conditions in future, would you do anything differently?"
I guess I might care less about blinding some drivers and just assume that there's always a drunk ninja on every unlit path.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I suspect how painful it is may depend on where along the bone the break is? Mine was pretty much in the middle, with the added bonus of a fragment off at a right angle, so it seemed to grind with any movement (including, I can remember quite clearly, being in a car going over speed bumps).
If you can move it without pain (and with the doc's okay that it's not going to retard the healing of the bone) I'd move it as much as possible. The main longer-term impact (beyond the collar bone being a bit shorter, making you more aero) is likely to be muscle wastage, both the obvious stuff and the more tricky little ones around the joint.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I didn't find it sore at all - at least not compared to the hip bursitis, mild concussion and road rash from my knee to my shoulder. My advice would be, once or twice a day, stand with your back to a wall and pull your shoulders back so that they are equal and straight. If you're like me it will give you an indication of how "forward" your shoulder is and let you get it into a better position. The bone rubbing is called crepitus fwiw.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I sneezed the evening I got back from the hospital, hurt like all hell but I think it realigned everything!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Notes from Barnton route meeting from someone who was there -
"
Various options were discussed, the majority wanted a chicane at the lowest/fastest point. * and I argued against, I suggested Spokes leafletting cyclists (and peds?) as was done at Roseburn Park (also canal?) and large warnings in road paint (as was done at Roseburn Park) and signs eg the 'Respect' signs you get some places.
A chicane would have to be properly lit. The present LED's are because the golf course, who own the land, objected to street type lighting, but if the council 'adopt' the path they may, I think the roads official was suggesting, have more freedom of choice with the lights. So the chicane will not happen overnight (and they don't want to introduce it during the Winter )(safety) so unless they can get it done this Summer it'll be next year.
* suggested the LED lights are dazzling to cyclists at night.
*, who called the meet said notes of the meet would be sent round.
The message to me was that where cyclists speeding is causing real or imagined danger measures such as chicanes will be built eventually.
The local area roads manager (or something similar) mentioned the Cramond Brig stretch as something they were currently thinking about, how they wanted to get it right. I got the impression cycle speed on that downhill has alienated some people and that speed reduction measures for bikes will be incorporated.
Officials were asked by the councillor and community council office bearers when discussing various issues/localities if emails etc had been received from the public about it. This says to me we should be communicating with officials and councillors as often as possible with both praise and suggestions, it may just influence their decisions.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
IMO there is too much of a power asymmetry to waste time emailing anyone about this (unless you happen to live in one of the dozen-odd houses in the immediate area). Providing they are properly lit, they may as well put a few chicanes in and be done with it I think.
I think it's hard to argue that they are much of an inconvenience so long as they comply with DDA etc., i.e. the one coming off the tram line at the eastern end of that path.
The idea that leaflets or painted messages on the surface would have any meaningful impact on anything is laughable, surely?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Looking through this thread it strikes me that the real problem is lack of capacity which is leading to the inappropriate mixing of cyclists and pedestrians. The major problem is that Council Officers seem incapable of understanding the amount of space needed to accommodate cyclists if they want to achieve a 10% modal share. Also a total failure to understand the use of the bicycle as transport and provide appropriate infrastructure for commuting.
What really needs to happen is that greater capacity is provided on high (cycle) volume routes, this would allow for the proper separation of cyclist and pedestrians where needed. As happens in places where active travel is common (i.e. mainland Europe). Where volumes are low, then cyclists and pedestrians can easily mix. It is not rocket science!
Instead of this we have the stupidity of trying to encourage ever greater levels of cycling on routes which are already over capacity and then try to tell people to be nice to each other. We know that it doesn't work, so why waste money doing it.
The so called improvements linking the canal and the innocent railway path will only server to make things worst as there is no plan to increase capacity. Apparently predict and provide can only be used for motor vehicles, and then only if the predicted volumes are wrong.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Kim The problem here is definitely not one of capacity. I have counted the usage on this section, and it is very lightly used. The number of pedestrians is vanishingly small (single figures per hour) and the number of bikes is similar except during a rush between 5 and 6 pm, when between 20 and 30 bikes will come down the path. I have not seen anyone 'speed'. It is a reasonably wide path.
@Dave did you have a way of getting speed data from strava (I have no knowledge of strava. Hadn't even heard about it until reading this forum) It would be useful to have reliable evidence on speed.
No, the problem is a perception among the Barntonites. The question is, why do they have that perception? @ chdot can the person who attended the meeting help here? What was said in terms of actual conflict or close passes by bikes? Have there been any evidenced crashes?
The led lights don't dazzle. The problem is that they don't provide any light except to delineate the path.
I have a feeling that the real problem is that some people, just don't want bikes there at all, and if they have to have them, they want to make sure that they travel at walking speed. A single chicane at the lowest point won't achieve that. You would need a ladder of DDA compliant well lit barriers. And if you light them, then you have solved the problem, that it is difficult to see darkly clothed pedestrians in the dark.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I think this is the reality.dog walkers in leafy suburbs are very well connected. I cite the long running saga of the new portobello high school where some wasteland that a few dog walkers used turned into a park. It was near a park, yes, but it was not used by anyone. Else.That went up to Scot gov before the needs of 1200 children could be established as greater than the needs of a few well connected dog walkers. IMHO.
Posted 9 years ago #
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