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Duncan Smith (@dnmnsmith)
27/01/2015 08:30
@west_team @CyclingEdin B800 FRC works block main cycle route, leave no provision to join west/b. Do you have influence with these folks?
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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
B800 'Problem'
(58 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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I'd thought there was something on last week and was going to post something similar this morning. Works have progressed at a very fast rate, with significant changes between morning and evening.
It looks like there may be a foot/cycle path being created up against the wall with teh side road/verge being used to add an extra lane. If that is the case, the delay may not be too much- I may start taking the A90 for the next week instead and see how things are then...
Posted 9 years ago # -
A 'temporary' pedestrian route has been created between wall and barriers, you wouldn't want to try riding a bike on it, too narrow & rough.
Heading north you'll just bump off onto the road. Gaining access southbound is troublesome, joining from a busy road without a dropped curb. A ramp would help, though less obstructiveness with the barriers would help too.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@duncans
+ 1 for everything you say
Posted 9 years ago # -
i'm using this route southbound mornings, but having no problems with the roadworks.
that said, i don't use the west side pavement that they have designated as a cycle path -- is that the problem here?
Posted 9 years ago # -
@bax- yes
Posted 9 years ago # -
Its a bit unusable at the best of times innit, expected to yield to all the petty little barely used junctions.
Posted 9 years ago # -
still preferable to the road - cars screaming along there and trying to overtake when traffic coming in opposite direction. All to end up behind the backside of the same car in Kirkliston...
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'll be raising this with the FRC folks at the open days this week:
If others would do the same, it would help, otherwise I'm just a lone voice.
Though I have much more to say about their plans for the B800 outside Tesco between the Tesco and Echline roundabouts, Westbound. The cycling enviorment there is about permanently to get much, much worse for my commute.
Posted 9 years ago # -
duncans, do you have details or a link to the plans your referring to?
Posted 9 years ago # -
No, and that's something of a sore point. They (Transport Scotland) ignored an entirely polite and reasonable request to see the plans. It's rather difficult to raise any complaint without them.
I hope to corner someone at the information day and get a copy, failing that some assisitance with an FOI request may be needed!
Posted 9 years ago # -
From the transport scotland response:
"The new northbound bus lane located on the approach to and beyond Ferrymuir Roundabout on the B800 has been designed to accommodate buses and taxis only. Facilities for cyclists on the B800 will be provided via a new footway/cycleway that will be located in the northbound verge between Dundas Estate and Ferrymuir Roundabout.
With regards to the expected access route for cyclists between Echline Estate and the new footway/cycleway on the B800, we confirm that new pedestrian and cyclist facilities will be provided as appropriate on the new sections of carriageway being constructed as part of the Forth Replacement Crossing project, including on the new section of A904 at Queensferry Junction and on the B800 south of Ferrymuir Roundabout. However, and with respect to the sections of road unaltered by the project, these continue to be owned, operated and maintained by the City of Edinburgh Council.
In terms of a route for cyclists, we would note that access from Echline Estate to the B800 can be taken utilising the B924 Bo'ness Road, Hopetoun Road and the B907 Kirkliston Road. Alternatively, and following completion of the works, cyclists may choose to utilise a more direct route to the new cycle facilities on the B800, via the A904 and Echline Junction. Cyclists may find the use of this section of carriageway more desirable as it is forecast to be far less trafficked than at present following the opening of the Queensferry Crossing.
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The bit in bold italics? Aye, right.I understand that from the tesco roundabout to echline roundabout, there is a 'cycle path' on the north side (i.e. the existing pavement, accessed by two sets of wait-for-it-wait-for-it lights and a narrow pedestrian cage). Too narrow, and for me, this dumps you on the wrong side of the road on the wrong side of the echline roundabout.
On the south side, bus lane (no cycling), then two lanes of traffic. Sound fun?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'll be using the bus lane. No qualms about that.
Will we still be able to enter/exit at the petrol station under the new layout plans?
Posted 9 years ago # -
The kind of detail you'd need sight of the plans to answer, annoyingly.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So I'm cycling a routine 26mph downhill on B800 southbound this morning, when a contractor working on behalf of Transport Scotland pulls alongside, and shouts that i should be on the "cyclepath" across the road.
That'll be the unmaintained shared-use pavement yielding at every single minor junction, then.
Sure the pedestrians would love my commuting speed.
Letter to MSP forthcoming. Keen to know the transport ministry's position on the suitability of shared-use, as Transport Scotland have no other strategy.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Never use the path south bound, like you say 25mph not an appropriate speed for that path. Add the complications of getting to it on that busy road. Quite often use it north bound as I'm not traveling as fast and can more easily access the road when the path runs out.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Sure the pedestrians would love my commuting speed.
I think the idea is that you would be cycling to conditions, thus not subjecting pedestrians to dangerous speeds?
Or in true CCE style: isn't this the same reasoning SafeSpeed use to insist on driving at 90mph in school playgrounds? ;-)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Hopefully the new section of "Shared path" alongside the wall of the Dundas estate is only temporary, it looks very narrow to me.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The answer to my query to the bridge contractors on the subject:
"At Dundas, we have stopped the cycleway temporarily at the Golf Club entrance and provided a footpath adjacent to the wall. We are tight for space in that area - so things will be like that until we complete the works in that area much later in the year."
Posted 9 years ago # -
That's not so bad then. Not sure why a bus lane is required on the B800 though, there's only a few local buses per hour use that route and it rarely gets backed up these days.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I think the idea is that you would be cycling to conditions, thus not subjecting pedestrians to dangerous speeds?
It's certainly integral to the accepted idea that peds and cyclists go together like fish and chips -- but their main idea is just that cyclists don't belong on the road, and don't require dedicated infrastructure.
They have some nerve describing an unsegregated unmaintained footpath, giving way at every junction, as a 'cycleway'.
This crap is the best we'll ever be offered, because no one actually expects anything better.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@scotti
The bus lane is part of the FRC works as in future all buses will be going over the old bridge and will come off A90 at a new off-slip onto the B800, turn right and head down to Echline Roundabout, so the number of buses will increase significantly.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Well that's just magic.
So much for the wonderful "the traffic will be much reduced" on the b800 excuse for the lack of cycling provision in the plans.Posted 9 years ago # -
Need to try and source the plans for this junction.
If I'm getting this right the local access for South Queensferry from the A90 will be via the B800. That will make this a very busy stretch of road.
A wee trip to the visitor centre may be called for.Posted 9 years ago # -
I have the plans, nowhere to put them presently.
It's not good, especially on the tesco roundabout->echline roundabout stretch.
Nearside westbound buslane.. busses & taxis only, NO BIKES. So you'll be riding centre lane, with busses on the left and impatient drivers pushing past on the right. Or undertaking you if you're assertive in the lane.
Do please enquire in the visitor centre, or Transport Scotland direct.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Even the segregrated bits aren't good, not anything the dutch would recognise as cycle infrastucture. Too much enthusiasm for 'pedestrian cage' railings and lights.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thanks Duncans, doesn't sound good from anyone's perspective. I live in Queensferry and this is a fairly busy route with kids from Kirkliston, walkers, golfers and of course us cyclists.
I fired an email off to the visitor centre for info.Posted 9 years ago # -
From experience, that might get lost for a week or two in Transport Scotland, who seriously suggested The Loan/Hopetoun Road as the safe alterntive for cycling across to Echline from the Tesco roundabout.
The contact you want is:
Ewen Macdonell
Community Liaison Manager
Forth Crossing Bridge ConstructorsExt: 1369
Tel: +44 (01383) 421369
Mob: +44 (0)7885 345876Forth Replacement Crossing Project Office
King Malcolm Drive
Rosyth
KY11 2DYPosted 9 years ago # -
At the new Echline junction there are now access points for road to shared use & vice versa appearing. Lots of railings as well. Some look as if you will be decanted straight back onto the roadway - not the best.
This new junction is likely to be the main access to SQ as the South on & off slip roads at the current Echline rbt are closing so it is this or the B924 down to the Hawes.
Regarding the B800 bus use. I doubt if all N bound buses will use this - I dont think there is any compulsion - so the express buses etc are likely to head over the new bridge. If so I think only the current Stagecoach 40 & 55 would use the new bus lane from the A90 onto the B800 & with a couple of other services that currently use the B800 to Kirkliston there won't be large nos of buses around very often. But I may be wrong ...Posted 9 years ago # -
So, why exclude cyclists from the bus lane, I wonder?
Plans incoming, thanks to chrisfl for sorting out hosting.
Posted 9 years ago #
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