CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Hospital workers face car parking ban at ERI"
(140 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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Maybe they should've built the RIE out in a field about 20 miles from here, allowing acres of land for free parking and forcing everyone to drive miles to get there? Not to mention the inevitable queuing to get in and out of the parking lot.
Would that be seen as fair? Or unfair?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Scottish Motorists' Party indeed.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Hundreds of angry workers are being urged to “bring a packed lunch” in a move aimed at hitting operator Consort Healthcare Ltd in the pocket.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Although may have an impact, blaming the company that runs its is a akin to blaming Al Capone’s outsource enforcer rather than who instructed the work. Reminds a me of a few year ago when there was the protest outside the Atos, when really should be outside the DWP or mps who voted through the legislation of who instructed the vote.
The problem with blaming the operators, is its gets the government of the hook politically by not following a line of accountability. In part why government like to privatise things, think about the railway, people blame the operating companies for not enough carriages or even for train stations not run by that company or for prices that are largely set by government. A way to diffuse accountability. When British rail people blamed government now people blame the company even for things still set by government.
This in turn creates further incentives for more outsourcing and privatisation, as allows government to pass the buck.
Who agreed this PFI contract, who agreed that this method of payment was to be used etc etc
Posted 7 years ago # -
The solution to people being charged for parking is simple: build more multi-storey car parks, which will be paid for by parking charges.
Posted 7 years ago # -
If the prices on that list are correct, then it seems to me that parking isn't actually that expensive. Most visits for appointments or visiting will be under the 2 hours mark (costing £2.30). Which is cheaper than a pair of singles on the bus (£3.20)
Posted 7 years ago # -
It would depend on what bus someone was taking and from where, in a car also have to pay the petrol duty as well parking costing, but I understand the point that is not that expensive compared to some parking rates. However if have an accident and turn up in the hospital may be an added delay in messing around with pay parking and have to wait more than 2 hours often.
Ambulance arrivals are not paying a charge for parking or the ambulance, although some ambulance arrivals may not be able to arrive but a bus car or some may.
I think the concern about parking charges like possibly many public sector organization is about how it effects workers rather than the public, if the staff could part for free would this story be in the paper possibly not.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The "political posturing" in question presumably being that of ex-EEN editor John McLellan himself. Is there no end to this man's unfettered access to the opinion pages of that rag?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Most visits for appointments or visiting will be under the 2 hours mark
Not in any NHS hospital I know of. My dad just finished chemotherapy. All of his appointments were for 9am (first appointment) and the earliest he ever was seen was 10.15 (then had to wait for the pharmacy to dispense the drugs, which averaged something over 45mins). This was routine "still alive" checking and giving him the same drugs week after week. He wasn't alone in this.Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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I was up cycling round the ERI yesterday. There's absolutely *loads* of parking space there! I noted that there is a parking wheeze engaged in by what looked like over one hundred drivers. On the quiet road before the bus/taxi/cycles only gate, cars are parked up in rows on the grass. Must have had to drive over the pavement and shared use path to get there. Disgruntled staff perhaps?
Have to say that the whole area round there is incredibly centred around motor vehicles. The shared use paths are decent but lacking in decent connectivity. Oh and the ones south of ERI are ludicrously steep! Fine for walking, but on the Pashley Pronto it was certainly a challenging climb...
Posted 7 years ago # -
Some discussion about ERI parking has been on the rubbish parking thread, but this is probably a more useful one.
“
Health bosses have agreed to more transparency over the awarding of parking permits at Edinburgh’s Royal Infirmary and also to look at allowing staff on different shifts to share permits.
“
Sounds sensible, why has it taken so long?
(Unfortunately EEN has put this behind “premium” paywall, so ‘details unread’.)
Posted 2 years ago # -
But would it solve the driving crisis, obesity crisis, climate crisis, death-by-car crisis and local roads crisis?
... billionaire philanthropist Sir Ian Wood who donated £10.7 million to build a multi-storey car park at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary
Building multi-storey car parks is now philanthropy is it? Well, according to Sir Ian Wood, best known for his work in the North Sea oil industry...
Go figure!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Staff should be able to park for free, they often work long unsociable hours and often work in a number of locations in diffrent parts of the country from day to day.
The problem for patients, and especially visitors is that the ERI is not a local hospital. Visitors finishing their work at 5 in say Motherwell, and getting home to West lothian, chucking a snack down and picking up washing for relative, and then onto the REI for 7, and back home at 9:30 to do more washing and repeat again for two weeks is physically impossible by public transport unless you work and live close to the hospital.
Try doing that for a fortnight (or longer periods over years) whilst your family member is getting care, I found it hard enough getting home from work in Edinburgh by train living minutes away from St Johns when my mother was in and out of hospital over a period of 7 years.
Lots of people have a genuine need to be able to park at a hospital.
Posted 2 years ago # -
“Lots of people have a genuine need to be able to park at a hospital.“
Clearly the demand/provision ’balance’ is not being managed well.
The main problem is the overwhelming assumption (not just about hospitals) that driving is the “best/only way”
It’s bad enough in places where work hours are (largely) 9-5.
‘Obviously’ it’s better to have a clear understanding of who wants/needs to get to hospital and when.
IF shift patterns mean most people change over at roughly the same times each day, perhaps more effort to improve bus services (or lay on special ones).
IF shift patterns are not well coordinated…
Also obvious is how inadequate the provision for cycling to hospital (ERI) was for many years (still not great) - which discouraged ‘good’ travel options/habits.
Who pays for more parking is largely beside the point. Is it close to the ‘best option’? Could the site roads and public roads cope??
Posted 2 years ago # -
The problem is basically the hospital is in the wrong place. It was a ridiculous decision to move it away from the city centre in the first place, to somewhere which is inconvenient to get to for most people in Edinburgh. It's only handy if you live in Niddrie.
The rest is just tinkering around the edges of the issue.
Posted 2 years ago # -
"The problem is basically the hospital is in the wrong place"
It's in the right place if you are to centralise services and have everyone in central scotland go there for specialist operations or treatment.
However as we see with health, and of course police too centralisation destroys local services and in the case of health it more or less mandates people travelling half way round the country for certain treatments.
Even if the hospital was built in the centre of Edinburgh, those people tarvelling from all over the country would still face an impossible task to care for their relatives, but with the added complication of getting into the city.
Only way to stop hospital commuting is to have more local services where it is easy for people to get to.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Like it or not, in this society, we use *money* to decide who most needs a limited resource. We don't make loaves of bread free despite many people living in hardship. Why should parking of expensive machinery be any different?
If you don't like that, maybe you need to change the system. Perhaps we could have ration books, or some other bartering system (would that still be money???)
Of course there are cases where people need to drive. Equally, there are many cases where people don't really need to drive - they choose to.
If you make parking free, when half the city have access to a motor car and the desire for parking is insatiable*, all that will happen is you'll destroy the city and no one will be able to get a space when they really need one! Furthermore, more parking and the subsequent more roads will drive everything (houses, hospitals, shops, workplaces) even further apart, making it even more difficult to get places. The car creates more distance than it overcomes!
*This means it can never be satisfied no matter how many multi-storeys you build.
Posted 2 years ago # -
"Even if the hospital was built in the centre of Edinburgh, those people tarvelling from all over the country would still face an impossible task to care for their relatives, but with the added complication of getting into the city."
The ERI used to be in the city centre, on Lauriston Place next to the Meadows. Within easy reach of rail services, bus routes, etc. As you may know the Sick Kids was just across the Meadows, has now moved to Little France also. They closed the Eastern General, but kept the Western General and the Royal Edinburgh in Morningside. So if you're lucky enough to live in the wealthier parts of Edinburgh, you can easily get to A&E or certain other health services. If not, or your young child is ill, tough luck you'll have to trek out to Little France!
Posted 2 years ago # -
"So if you're lucky enough to live in the wealthier parts of Edinburgh, you can easily get to A&E or certain other health services. If not, or your young child is ill, tough luck you'll have to trek out to Little France!"
I don't follow. ERI is the only A&E within Edinburgh and environs (only other adult A&E in NHS Lothian is Livingston). Western General has a Minor Injuries Unit, which is very very limited in what they can treat (I know this from experience). Royal Edinburgh is exclusively psychiatric.
ERI siting is far from ideal but I'm not seeing the socioeconomic imbalance in it?
Posted 2 years ago # -
"Why should parking of expensive machinery be any different?"
It's not currently free, it may be at the point of delivery however it is paid for by everyone paying general and local taxation.
"If you don't like that, maybe you need to change the system."
This^^ ;)
However I do completely agree with the point about local people who do not neccesarily need to drive, both staff and patients/visitors.
With the caveat that Edinburgh staff who do 1 day at ERI, 1 day at Borders, and 1 day at Livingston as part of their weekly work schedule should be able to drive to those other places (as they currently can).
Posted 2 years ago # -
"It's not currently free, it may be at the point of delivery however it is paid for by everyone paying general and local taxation."
Travel by car to ERI and other hospitals currently is 'free', fuel/insurance apart, in a way that public transport to the same venues isn't. It's a subsidy and a sop.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm not sure the two things are related.
Travel on roads by car and bus, and travel on public transport are both are paid for by Govt subsidy out of the transport budget. You can argue about the cost of maintenance of roads and value etc and that is is fair, however currently both are provided.
The cost of the parking is paid for out of the health budget. Making that payable may have a positive impact on health spending, but it would have no impact on the transport budget.
In both cases those are paid for by you and me out of our general and local taxation and nat insurance payments. So it's understandable why people conflate the costs.
It's a bit like saying why did they waste all that money on a sports cycle track when they could have built segregated cycle paths instead. If they didn't build the sports track, it would have been spent on football pitches or a skatepark for example, not infra, same conflation.
Posted 2 years ago # -
So Baldcyclist, you wish to change the system? What do you propose?
I'm genuinely interested to know, because the current system that creates billionaires and huge wealth disparity isn't fair. But what to do instead? Ultimately, people need to trade goods and services - you can't live in an isolated bubble where you provide all your own needs. But everytime I think about this, I always end up back at some equivalent to money...
Posted 2 years ago # -
No no, you perhaps misread my post. I said the parking wasn't free as it was currently already paid for (by Health budget *money*)
I suggested therefor that maybe you wanted to change the current system (so it wasn't paid for by the Health budget *money*).
Wider system change conversation a longer conversation for another day, I switch between capatilism and socialism by topic. Though I do agree with higher taxation in general to pay for things which have a common good (like hospital parking).
I'm happy for folk to be made to walk/cycle/bus/train other places (including work for most, key workers asside) that they *choose* to go to, people generally not choosing to go to hospitals 60 miles away from where they live for any reason.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm not conflating anything. The Scottish Government has declared a climate emergency, targeting reduction in car journeys and yes it subsidises many elements of public transport to encourage its provision and use. It has simultaneously compromised those aspirations by paying huge sums to buy out PFI car parks (£26.3m at Glasgow Royal Infirmary, £9m at Ninewells, £950k per quarter so far to the ERI PFI provider with no final buy out figure agreed) to provide free parking to car owners, thereby encouraging private car use. And the parking situation at ERI for staff seems worse than before, which was entirely predictable (many responding rationally to the costs/'incentives' placed before them by ScotGov/NHS). And so start the demands to further facilitate car use by spending more money tarmacing more land (and in the case of a multistorey, pouring tens of 000s of tonnes of concrete which is about the most CO2 emission destructive thing conceivable).
Posted 2 years ago # -
I suspect you are looking in the wrong place if you think ending hospital parking will solve the climate emergency.
It would be better if people didn't have to travel 60 miles for treatment/visitng by car or bus or train or any other mode of transport, rather than telling them they can't park...
Posted 2 years ago # -
It makes you wonder how people ever survived when the RIE was located on Lauriston Place and there was literally no car parking?
How did key workers ever make their 60 mile commutes? How did visitors ever daisy chain trips caring for their relatives? How did sick people ever get there, were they dragged unconscious through the streets?
Or did everything just work mostly fine, and all of this BS about parking is actually people just making excuses because they want to drive?
Posted 2 years ago #
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