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CCE is 15years old!
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Western men need to get their act together and determine acceptable formal office clothing that actually works in warm weather.
Looking around I could split this office neatly down the middle into those who are comfortable in lightweight floaty things, and those of us who are pink faced and moist browed in suits.
(Tenuous link to avoid OT: Penny in yo' pants, for use with aforementioned lightweight floaty things)
Are a neat cotton or linen short sleeved shirt and chino knee length shorts with belt, really still not acceptable in 'proper' offices?
on the other hand, i have to attend graduations today, and my only dress that looks unridiculous under silk and wool gown is a heavy black mid-calf knit fabric.
i shall be more than moist-browed I think
Apparently not.
Although you probably win with that. Maybe a camelbak for fluid intake hidden beneath the robe?
The only man in shorts in this office arrived by bicycle and hasn't got changed yet. I don't think shorts are socially acceptable office wear on either gender.
I do think women do get a better deal on acceptable clothing when it is really hot (though I can't wear any of my nice light office tops in the office because the air conditioning makes it really cold! I bring a jacket to wear in the office and take it off to go outside...)
"Although you probably win with that. Maybe a camelbak for fluid intake hidden beneath the robe?"
Genius idea. And probably more hydrating than the bottle of whisky I dare say some academics have sewn in... ;)
Shorts were certainly no-go in any offices I've worked in, though in the last place, and latterly in the place before that, things were relaxed enough not to have to wear a tie, be able to roll shirt sleeves up, and not have full on 'office' troos, but something a bit lighter.
Saw a chap in a suit earlier today, but the trousers were cropped. Not shorts, just cropped about 6 inches up. Looked.... odd....
I do have a wee backpack that i'm planning to hide under the robes, so I can sneak in the iPad to take pictures later for the official socmed feed.
my Dad was the first person to wear shorts in his office in the 80s, soon after everyone did.
i've had shorts on all week, i'm afraid....
Ah but SRD you are an academic and therefore don't work in a "proper" office ;-) I meant that shorts aren't socially acceptable as formal office wear, with a nice shirt. (I think they are in Australia?) None of the men round here are wearing jackets, most aren't wearing ties, but there's no way they'd wear shorts.
Bermuda suits....
I remember working for a few days in Mauritius (ooh the glamour) and the lawyer I was working with was bemoaning the fact that they had western sensibilities about dress (full suits despite the heat), unlike those in Bermuda and other islands (lightweight and shorts).
What do you call an Aussie in a suit?
The accused *b'dum tish*
The old ones are always the best...
"Are a neat cotton or linen short sleeved shirt and chino knee length shorts with belt, really still not acceptable in 'proper' offices?"
Chinos are thicker and warmer and even less comfortable than normal employment-trousers. In previous years' summers I would occasionally sneak to my desk in a pair of smartish flaxen trousers and sandals, after consulting the dress code and pre-preparing an argument based on it being illegal to permit one gender to wear more sandals than the other. Some people did wear chinos with some regularity, but the stood out, a bit like the people who wore trainers or what looked like golf shoes. We've not had to wear ties for seven years and were finally released from having to wear employment-specific shirts and trousers last month, which means I can now get away with the ¾ Endura Zymes which are no longer much use for cycling as all the major pockets have holes in.
I have a long-sleeved linen shirt that I wear on occassion in the office.
There's a few short-sleeve shirt wearers, but mostly thought of as eccentric oddballs. At least ties and suit jackets are not expected in our office. Shorts would definitely not be acceptable, even on dress down day, for some reason. Women can get away with much more than men round our way, perhaps that's because there's less established convention around formal office attire?
Downstairs in the call centre they're much more relaxed to the point of flip flops, shorts and t-shirts.
There's nothing against rolling ones sleeves up, but actually there's no need as we sit in a fairly well-managed environment held constantly at a pleasing ambient temperature.
Shorts, t-shirts, sandals, kilts on occasion - engineering companies are a whole other world! If I came in with a shirt on someone would suspect I was sneaking off for an interview.
@dougal- sounds perfect, and like my first workplace in Edinburgh.
If I see a man in a suit I immediately think "used car salesman" and want to run a mile.
I know it is prejudiced, but it is a healthy prejudice, like my one against SUV Drivers.
Healthy prejudice? Given used car salesmen make up about 1%, if not less, of suit wearers...?
Stranger mount of anti-suitness around here the last few days, which seems weird. I actually quite like a suit, gives a nice mental separation between work and not-work, and personally I think they look smart and professional and in certain lines of work I'd rather the person I was dealing with looked that way (granted, means I've been moulded by social convention). But in some weather a suit starts to make no sense (and in my last workplace they could NEVER get the temperature right, and in summer the place was a greenhouse, regularly working in temperatures over 25 degrees).
Also merchant bankers will make up another significant proportion...
Also why would anyone want to wear a noose around their neck?
A suit just screams "style over substance" to me. And the waste of time and money on ironing/dry cleaning is just depressing.
Ask most people why they wear suits and the answer is because "everyone else does" or "we've always done it like that" which is one of my pet hate phrases...
Vast majority of people I've worked with wear business attire (generally smart trousers and shirt for us in IT) for one of those reasons and would switch to 100% casual at the drop of a hat, if they could get away with it.
*rant over*
I turned up to a project meeting in lycra cycling shorts yesterday, but did have a 'normal' t-shirt on.
No-one seemed to mind. It was at another campus and I was going home afterwords, so didn't want to have to carry haevy trousers in my bag.
Last few weeks I have mainly been in jeans as we have been decanted into a computer lab due to our ceiling falling down. I normally wear smartish trousers and a casual shirt or polo t-shirt.
Only ever really wear a suit if interviewing, or have to go to a funeral at some point during the day.
Must admit folk who wear ties worry me, they're either trying to be more important than they are or their trying to sell me something.
What about stubbly beards? Does no-one in Edinburgh's west end shave any more?
I saw some internal marketing material featuring a beard just the other day.
@wingpig
you lost me after 5 words...
"Only ever really wear a suit if interviewing, or have to go to a funeral at some point during the day."
@baldcyclist - likewise
amongst other 'proper' office wear i have a nice tailored linen summer suit, but as I am preparing to head off to 'the continent' for meetings next week, and seeing the temperature forecasts, I cannot see packing it. relaxed linen trews, skirts and layered cotton tops for me.
I suspect it's more the lack of really hot days in these northern climes that cause these wardrobe crises. We have little need for hot weather gear, so don't buy it. As gembo will attest, I'm wearing a linen dress shirt (and suit and tie, tie-haters) today. I think it's the fourth time I've had occasion to wear the shirt to work in the 5+ years I've owned it.
We also don't have much practice of wearing warm weather gear, so there's a high risk of getting it wrong.
The Italians seem perfectly able to carry off the suit and tie (or no tie, if you prefer) in high temperatures, but those suits will be made of a sensible lightweight linen, as opposed to the standard-issue Brit wool number.
They probably have more suits in their wardrobes than Johnny Brit as well. A stylish turn-out is perhaps higher up the cultural priority list there than here?
I don't have a problem with suits and ties. They can look very stylish. However, they don't work for everyone, and an ill-fitting suit is not a good look, and possibly a worse look than trousers and a shirt.
The problem employers have is not being able to trust their employees to dress "appropriately" for the workplace, especially as (as is all to clear from the sights you see on a sunny day) everyone has a different view of what appropriate dress looks like...
The 2004 suit I begrudgingly edge into for weddings etc. is linen, which makes it slightly less unpleasant to be trapped in than my 2001 suit, if worn with a linen shirt; if worn with a non-linen shirt I end up looking relaxed and lineny whilst being damp and uncomfortable within. I have a wedding to attend in September where I've apparently got to be in grey, which will mean fishing out the 1999 suit and sticking a patch behind the hole in the upper leg. I haven't worn a suit to work since an interview in 2005, but did have to wear ties until 2007, which I could only stand by having them loosened above an undone (or deliberately-removed) top button.
The top button thing is interesting. Surely only really an issue if the shirt doesn't fit properly? I used to have a lot of trouble with it at school and early years at work. Then I sized up from 15.5" to 16" and now everything it fine and dandy in the world of neckware...
Back when I first started having to wear shirts on a daily basis I still had swimming shoulders and had to buy 17" collar shirts (which look stupidly tentlike on me these days), but the stiffness/contact of the collar around the larynx still have me the neck-heebies when fastened.
"A suit just screams "style over substance" to me. And the waste of time and money on ironing/dry cleaning is just depressing."
So basically you judge a book by its cover, tar everyone with the same brush, don't like people who have different viewpoints or priorities as you have?
The natural way around this, of course, is we all wear sack cloth, or nothing at all. :-O
Still maintain I quite like wearing a suit (though also being a convert to a kilt, I think when well fitted (and not OTT Charlie jackets) they look the business, and I'd happily wear one of those to work each day.
Where's Smudge? He's got some cracking military dress uniforms....
Like many office-based engineering companies we attempt to emulate Californian start-up culture. That means if you come in in jeans & t-shirt you're probably overdressed. Shorts and a t-shirt are fairly normal. Anyone wearing a full suit would stick out like a sore thumb (or is a non-Californian customer or supplier).
It got to the point now where we really need to have a "dress up Friday" - where you get kudos for wearing a suit, full highland, morning tails or other formal wear.
We got as far as having a 'hats' Friday, where you have to wear some kind of headgear, but so far it hasn't taken off massively.
"... but the stiffness/contact of the collar around the larynx still have me the neck-heebies when fastened"
One thing I do do is leave the top button undone. The tie is still up, but it gives that little bit more comfort (tall and slim-ish means you can never match body fit and collar size perfectly), and then found out that I almost didn't get a job for this one reason alone. Which I guess is the opposite to not trusting anyone in a suit and making assumptions about them because they're wearing one; making assumptions about someone not attired perfectly, and assuming they won't be able to do the job because of it.
No matter what you wear, as long as you do?
It's a context thing I guess and will vary across industries.
At a previous job, turning up for a client meeting in anything other than suit/tie was verboten.
At another previous job they relaxed the dress code but my department continued to wear suit/ties - we were all more comfortable in that environment.
Due to a laundry disaster a friend once turned up for work in jeans/trainers but with a shirt and tie on. He is now known as "Status Quo".
During a previous heatwave a colleague wore a white linen suit one day. He was instantly christened The Man From Del Monte and abused all day. The effect was further spoiled by him spilling coffee down his trousers early in the morning. He went back to his normal suit the next day and the white suit never returned.
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