CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Chambers St pavement extension

(68 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by neddie
  • Latest reply from Fountainbridge

  1. neddie
    Member

    TRO/15/40 – Chambers Street

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/1580/tro1540_%E2%80%93_chambers_street

    Looks like they plan to extend the pavement massively outside the NMS and... get this... removing parking!!!

    Approx 36 pay & display spaces to be removed.

    No mention of cycling and no increase in the amount of bike parking though.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    About time too.

    Chambers Street is one street where banning parking 'just happens' - mostly at Tattoo time.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. Roibeard
    Member

    Although the parking TRO suggests that there will be element of shared space, the RSO makes it clear that it will be footway only:

    "[the] present carriageway, shall become footway the right of passage being exercisable on foot only"

    At least there will be fewer parking/moving off drivers to negotiate.

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. steveo
    Member

    Although removing the parking is grand, does that street have the kind of footfall to warrant a pavement of that size?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I don't think this is to do with footfall, Steveo, I think the NMS want a sort of performance / temporary exhibition space outside the front.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. Also brings in the chicken and egg situation. It's a bit like EEN commenters saying "why are they putting a bike lane in there, no-one rides on that street". Bigger pavement may well lead to an increase in footfall (and I think it's a pretty busy street anyway isn't it?).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. steveo
    Member

    I think the NMS want a sort of performance / temporary exhibition space outside the front.

    That rings a bell. Makes more sense.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. wingpig
    Member

    There's also some current conflict between people wanting to walk along it (or go north-south, but using the set-back pedestrian crossing) and people wanting to loiter/dawdle along gawping at things/wrangle their bags and anoraks when emerging from/preparing to enter the museum, even at half-five on a Thursday in October, though this is mostly around the circular bit on the corner rather than outside the steps. Currently the door on the circular bit is the only always-open lift-avoiding level access.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. PS
    Member

    I don't think this is to do with footfall, Steveo, I think the NMS want a sort of performance / temporary exhibition space outside the front.

    A public plaza, just like what I've told the George Street consultants should be put in place in front of the Assembly Rooms...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    Small pic of C St full of people

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14340466

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. PS
    Member

    Was that when they had the animatronic dinosaur?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. Fountainbridge
    Member

    There were plans for a similar space years ago - sponsored by Edinburgh Uni. They wanted to place a status of "Sir Geddes" or something.

    Must admit I'm getting slightly concerned that if the street does close, it funnels more traffic in to the Cowgate, which is one of the only remaining routes across the city centre from East <> West

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    I think you mean https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Geddes

    "if the street does close, it funnels more traffic in to the Cowgate"

    All the more reason to 'finally' confront the fact that Ed should do more to restrict city centre traffic!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. steveo
    Member

    I guess the problem with Edinburgh is the options for East West traffic are fairly limited routing traffic north and south of Princes Street gets one to equally unsuitable roads just further away from town, well till you hit the bypass. Which is a bit of a bear if you want to get from Gorgie to Leith.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. paulmilne
    Member

    But seriously, who drives across Edinburgh anyway? I already do the Dutch thing of going round the periphery and then in to the bit I want to get to - doesn't everybody?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. steveo
    Member

    I wouldn't drive all the way out to the bypass to get from Gorgie to Leith no.

    Generally speaking though I'd not take the car any where near town but on very rare occasions its the least objectionable option.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. From Duddingston to the Forth Road Bridge it's a real toss up as to which route is quicker. Obviously the bypass loop is faster speed, but can be clogged up, and is a longer route; heading round the coast road is 30mph, but if you get the lights and traffic is light it can be quicker. SO when heading north I generally toss a coin (metaphorically) and hope I get the right one.

    If it was made more difficult to traverse the city there's no doubt I'd take the bypass.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. fimm
    Member

    Just posted this in a George Street thread but thought it would be interesting here too:
    https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/reconstruction-of-st-marys-place-in-utrecht/

    "Not only residents and entrepreneurs in the area, but also visitors were interviewed... An investigation was started, on the basis of these discussions, to see if it was possible to completely remove all on-street public parking spaces instead of just reducing their number."
    To repeat; the shopkeepers etc asked for more parking to be removed than was originally proposed...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. kaputnik
    Moderator

    "if the street does close, it funnels more traffic in to the Cowgate

    Surely anyone heading east has to go down onto the Grassmarket anyway once they get to the end of Chambers Street?

    My Dad seems to think coming through the Grassmarket / Cowgate / Park is the most appropriate way to get from Corstorphine to us at Meadowbank, then spends all his time moaning about the traffic in town when he eventually gets here. He seems closed off to the suggestion of coming along the more arterial route of Ferry Road then up Pilrig, along Iona Street etc.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. neddie
    Member

    I find it infuriating that they haven't increased the number of bike parking spaces.

    How can they take away 36 car spaces and not replace them with bike spaces? That's just going to result in complaints all round.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. wingpig
    Member

    Pilrig/Iona will be prevented if the most recent plans survive.
    I go Seafield/Harry Lauder/A1/bypass to get to Glasgow from Leith, to much opprobrium from people who tend to go Duke/Unction/Ferry/Telford/Queensferry/Maybury, often exceeding the speed limit and making any time comparison unfair.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. paulmilne
    Member

    An interesting thought experiment - the best route for an inner ring road. Mind you, it would probably mean upgrading what are now some quieter streets.

    We've got most of the northern bit already, Harry Lauder to Seafield to Queensferry Road. Then ...

    Clermiston Road to Saughton Road to Longstone/Ingles Green Road to Slateford Road to Craiglockhart Avenue to Glenlockhart Road to Greenbank Drive to Morningside Road to Cluny Gardens/Charterhall Road to Blackford Ave/West Mains Road/Esselmont Road to Cameron Toll to A6905 to Duddingston Park Street back up to Harry Lauder Road.

    You'd have to create a link from Clermiston Road to Saughton Road, bash through some heritage Corstorphine, no big deal. Upgrade the rest and allow access into but not through the center.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. wingpig
    Member

    "...Seafield to Queensferry Road..."

    But which way? If forced to go this way along a non-bypass route I prefer to go right out along Seafield/Salamander/Baltic/Bernard/Commercial/Lindsay/SStarbank/Lower Granton/West Granton/West Granton Access/Crewe Toll/Telford so that I can avoid squidgy-crush-oncoming-bus-two-layers-of-parking bits like Ferry Road and obstinately stick below speed limits along bits which other people think are motorways. I much prefer the bypass as it drastically cuts down the number of heebie-generating junction-interactions and reduces the number of pedestrians and cylists and house-residents affected by my journey. There isn't a north bit of the bypass so I try not to pretend the roads which vaguely look like they might be a north stretch of a ring road on a map are one.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. cb
    Member

    @wingpig, maybe no bad thing having you driving along inner city streets as you'll be helping to keep the traffic to a reasonable speed?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. Stickman
    Member

    This seems apposite:

    http://xkcd.com/1580/

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. neddie
    Member

    Chambers St redetermination order available here:

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/trafficorders

    (RSO/15/28 Chambers Street Redetermination - finishes 6 February 2016)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. neddie
    Member

    Note that objecting to an RSO is extremely powerful, as it has to then be referred up to Scot Govt. (If I am not wrong...)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. cb
    Member

    They have already started shifting the statue (Chambers?) From the middle of the street I understand.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. chrispaton
    Member

    edd1e_h, indeed you're correct that objections to a redetermination order have to referred to Scottish Ministers (unlike objections to a TRO). Normally the council would reply to your objection first and afford you the chance to drop it. There were examples of this at the recent Transport & Environment Committee meeting where some objections to the Leith Walk RSOs are being referred.

    In any case, I don't see any cause to object to this RSO -- looks alright to me!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. SRD
    Moderator

    The Living Streets Edinburgh submission to the consultation drew on many points that were made here, but wer disregarded.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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