Happy to meet up to brainstorm* ideas on how to present this, but my IT skills are lacking on setting up an attractive website.
*sorry, I'm in work mode.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
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Posted 8 years ago #
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If anyone feels the BBC article is factually incorrect then this link allows you to submit corrections http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/contact-us/editorial
At least Forth one have contacted Lesley for her comments. She makes it clear there are benefits for pedestrians and that parking requirements have been taken into account. Their headline is still lazy though. I assume the kids have just written a press release and emailed it to all the relevant outlets. If anyone here has time it might be worth a similar press release from the pro camp.
Can I ask that people stop posting links to the anti petition. If people want to find it then they will be able to and otherwise each link just makes Google think it's more popular than it is. Links to here on the other hand seem like a good idea:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/support-roseburn-west-coates-protected-cycle-routePosted 8 years ago # -
Jeremy Balfour, Frank Ross and Cameron Buchanan (MSP) have all signed the anti-petition. Four Gregsons on there too.
They are up at 100.
Various comments too. E.g.
"More cycling lane lunacy from stalinist council".Posted 8 years ago # -
I intend to write a short document explaining why the current route via Haymarket Yards / Balbirnie Place is not fit for purpose, highlighting the number of twists and turns, hazards, ups-and-downs etc. It feels like many people against the scheme have been told "but there's already a route!" and I want to have a clear explanation of why a new route along Wester Coates is crucial.
I'll do it as a Google Doc so that others can make comments etc. Will aim to share a draft around this evening...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Is there an equal and opposite position somewhere I can sign that is in favor of the scheme? I bet it would have more than 100 signatories, and could be vigorously publicised. Sorry if this has already come up and I've missed it!Just saw the link above!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chrispaton that's a great start. I'm happy to chip in with annotated diagrams, photos etc. where it might help, I go this way most days.
Question for the panel, I assume it (by which I mean any communications to councillors on the Transportation Committee) will have more effect coming from individual persons, rather than as a team effort signed by a list of names?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well I just press-ganged a customer in to filling in the questionnaire 'strongly agreeing' on the shop computer. I plan to ask everyone who comes in until the consultation closes. Going to get my whole family to sign up as well.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Going to get my whole family to sign up as well.
Best get the friends and family onto this too!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well, yes. But I mean eveen my non-cycling family (ie. most)!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@kaputnik, yes individual communications will be more effective, especially if they are from a voter in the councillor's ward. Even if your local councillor is not on the committee, it's worth contacting them.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'll copy my response-so-far to the consultation to my local transport-committee-compatible councillor, along with accounts of personal and witnessed experience using the Balbirnie route. A new BUG appeared on the work intranet over the festive period, which already mentions the consultation but didn't mention the extension until Feb 1st, which it now knows about.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well, yes. But I mean eveen my non-cycling family
Goes for mine too.especially if they are from a voter in the councillor's ward
Fortunately my parents are in the EH12 postcode :)
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
We need to set up our own website/WordPress with the rationale for why this is a good scheme.
Something an 'non-cyclist' could understand.
Any volunteers?
"
I could be persuaded.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ chrispaton
There have been accidents on that route. I can send you some details.
Do please do that.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just been having my ear bent by someone anti-Roseburn-Leith project. Their issues are:
* that staggered two-part crossings are better for traffic flow because you don't hold up both (or all four) lanes of traffic at once.
* that they're nearly run down by cyclists every day, both on Roseburn Terrace and in the park, because cyclists are quiet and zoom along at 30 miles an hour.
* that the proposed closure of the rat run will just make it more difficult for Roseburn tenement residents to have things delivered.
* that altering the parking spaces means moving the communal bins further from their flat, and the communal bins are already taking up potential parking space.
* that a right turn from Roseburn Terrace into Roseburn Gardens (?) will cause great danger for pedestrians and children walking to the school.
* that building a cycle lane, removing parking, and getting rid of two lanes of roadway will make it impossible for Roseburn residents.
* that lots of people want to shop on Roseburn Terrace, but only want to stop for 20 minutes or so, and now they won't be able to.
* that the people at yesterday's consultation were almost all against the proposals.My ear bender doesn't own a car and cannot ride a bike.
Posted 8 years ago # -
A chap was paralysed tugoing straight on at Roseburn by a vehicles turning right in front of him. Must have been ten years ago now.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I got this supportive email from someone on my work BUG. It reinforces the importance of getting support counted:
As a District Councillor for South Glos Council, I know how important the consultation process is and need for supportive comments. Unfortunately I have seen many consultations fail due to a few objections received. It took me 2 years to overturn a consultation to get speed restrictions implemented on a country lane. 99% of residents wanted the speed restrictions but didn’t demonstrate their support through the consultation process. The 1% that objected were seen as the majority as they were the only ones to respond to the consultation. Very frustrating……..I will happily follow the link you have supplied and add my supportive comments……good luck!!!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Arrelcat
Useful list.
Some of the points may have merit so CEC needs to look at (and probably has).
Generally it's just 'we don't like change' AND 'this is just being done for a handful of pesky cyclists'.
The later hasn't been dealt with enough by CEC.
It's hard to persuade 'most people' that traffic isn't 'inevitable/desirable' and that parking isn't a right...
It's also hard to know if 'the noisy' are inline with 'most people'.
Of course "we" are (to some degree) 'the noisy' on the other side. Of course "we" like to think we are sensible/rational/progressive/visionary/vanguarders/working for a better city/etc. etc.
BUT it really shouldn't be about 'cycling'.
It would be nice if (for instance) Living Streets, Transform Scotland, Friends of the Earth and others could get involved.
It would also be nice if the local community council, school etc were supportive in principle - and help with refining the details to make the scheme better for 'most' people (not just those who live/work locally).
Posted 8 years ago # -
Non-optimal things about the use of the Haymarket Yards/Balbirnie route:
From Morrison Street: FUN WITH TRAM TRACKS, impatient oaves driving up your mudguard, taxis doing U-turns, parked coaches and buses, people panicking around parked buses and coaches and doing weird things and people who have failed to notice the tram tracks/box junctions blocking them and bunging up the junction. If there was a nice cycle route available you could turn right to go up Palmerston Place, or go up Torphichen Place to go up Manor Place (until a proper segregated solution for Haymarket/Dalry is achieved).
From Dalry Road: no left turn, so if you're going left it's a stop/dismount (with impatient things behind) then fun with buses and taxis. If there was a route available by going straight over to Grosvenor Street it would avoid the buses/taxis/trams faff.
From Rosebery Crescent: once or twice, just to see what it was like, I attempted to turn right out of Rosebery Crescent. It's not happening, unless you weigh enough and are made of enough metal to be able to physically intimidate other vehicles' drivers OR wait for everything to gum up and stop and sneak through gaps (unless on a non-standard bike or not prepared to do balancey-filter stuff through traffic which could unexpectedly un-gum itself or try to shuffle forward an inch here and there).
From Haymarket Terrace: another fun right turn, with impatient things whizzing past your left elbow and very impatient things whizzing past your right cheek as they accelerate to regain their implied superior androgen production capacity after spending several minutes shuffling through the gummed-up junction.At the top of the slope: FUN WITH TRAM TRACKS and with lots of vehicles coming up the slope coming really quite far over the middle line for some reason, possibly as they've not spotted the Keep Left sign on the traffic island and were going to try to turn into the tram stop.
At the bottom of the slope: the right-turn over the tram tracks, made more fun by the large metal utility access cover right where someone slowing to turn right might be applying their brakes and turning their handlebars. I've had a couple of front-wheel moments here. If you're in the "cycle lane" in the gutter you have an extra set of tram tracks to cross and are right where no drivers look.
Along Haymarket Yards: giant Beemers/Beemerlikes zooming along on the wrong side of the road as they go past cars which are parked at the roadside to drop-off/pick-up.
Between Haymarket Yards and Balbirnie Place: pedestrians*, a wee kerb thing which I saw take someone down once when they moved over to pass a pedestrian in the dark, a narrow turning between the fence and bushes, more pedestrians* and bins which often creep over and further restrict the path width.
Into the housing estate: FUN WITH CAR PARK, including an occasional scattering of glass on the left near the bins, guerilla resident-sourced cones startling opportunist parkers into sudden manoeuvres, things whizzing round corners on the wrong side of the road and pedestrians*, who tend to walk on the road rather than through the shadowy ped-only tiny path around the fronts of the houses.
(*I like pedestrians, am often one and am very careful around them, but they might still be startled by me or might misinterpret me waiting a safe distance behind them and going at their speed and being prepared to go a safe distance behind them at their speed until the end of the narrow bit without not pushing past as an order for them to get out of my way.)
Balbirnie Place: sort of OK, though the turn onto the Roseburn is one of those tight-turn-plus-bump affairs which it helps to know about in advance. Occasional large vehicles barrelling through at some speed, occasionally through occasional side-of-the-road parking.Much the same going the other way except that the amount of track-crossing is reduced if you stay to the left of the tracks, which results in cars trying to overtake and pedestrians leaping off the kerb immediately in front of you to cross to the tram stop.
When I travel from the Roseburn path to the city centre with a child I just get it to dismount and walk/push: what a confident everyday cyclist puts up with is far above what you'd subject an unconfident/newbie/small potential cyclist to, especially if you want them to keep at it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
Outdoors — Midday/Midweek - Water of Leith, Roseburn to Leith
2016-01-20 12:00:0
http://yohobby.com/e/312829"
Will they visit the cafe first??
Posted 8 years ago # -
Crashmap.co.uk shows more than 20 incidents including 4 serious injuries on Roseburn Terrace between 2005 and 2014.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@arellcat concerning your ear bender and given that they said they didn't own a car, why do you think they were so anti, and articulatey put forward a lot of counter reasons (although I profoundly disagree and believe most of those reasons won't materialise and the rest will actually benefit the Roseburn residents and retailers)? What type of person were they?
Posted 8 years ago # -
It is worth remembering that the Councillors on the Transport and Environment Committee deal with a huge range of issues - bins, parks, dog logs, parking, air pollution and so on. They are already swamped by paper from officials, much of which probably never gets read. This is just one of many issues they are dealing with. Timing and clear messaging are of the essence.
I would hold fire on website development until it was clear that this might be useful. Doubtful how it could be used to turn anti's into pro's - that takes real work. Easier to get the soft pro people to actually respond to the consultation than make the effort to change people's mind.
The key is to respond to the formal consultation in numbers, contact councillors a day or two before this is considered at committee - so messages of support are fresh in the memory and have key organisations making clear statements of support - SPOKES, transform Scotland, FoE. Even better would be health charities, business groups or people normally unrelated to cycling.
This isn't time for nuance - a simple "We think this is a great idea" no "ifs" or "buts" - that could terminally undermine the message.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I sent a fairly lengthy email to the consultation group, my own councillors (Edie,Ross and Balfour) and copied in the Transport Committee. Made sure if was all extremely positive, focussed on benefits to local area, mentioned cycling in the last couple of paragraphs. If anyone wants to see it for ideas then let me know, or I can stick it up here.
I got a swift reply from Andrew Burns and Karen Keil. Karen Keil in particular said it was very encouraging to hear such positive support.
Need to lovebomb the council on this: don't want it strangled at birth.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"contact councillors a day or two before this is considered at committee"
@morningsider very nicely put. Do we know the committee date, and exactly when we should be hitting their mailboxes?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Next transport committee is Tuesday 15th March. Papers usually published the week before. This should include the results of the consultation.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Row over proposed cycle lane in Edinburgh - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-35344055
Revised BBC article
Posted 8 years ago # -
That's a lot better now. Good to see they've updated the headline as well as the content.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I have now emailed my councillors on top of my formal consultation response.
As a west Edinburgh resident I will be pretty distraught if this gets derailed by NIMBYs and moaners.
Posted 8 years ago #
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