Great job @i.
I suspect the strange area is effectively "shared space" to indicate that anyone "loading" can freely use the cycle track.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
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Posted 8 years ago #
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I believe CEC will have 'visualisations' when the current process is finished, by Christmas apparently -
Posted 8 years ago # -
Ah, putting a face to a username! I may have sneaked a wee stroke of your lovely dog....hope that was ok. I was standing next to you and unhurt during the feedback bit of the bikelash session.
Excellent work: it's getting shared a lot on Twitter so I'd like to make sure you get the credit for it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Roseburn visualisation is fantastic! After Peter Hawkins suggested a visualistation of Roseburn at Walk-Cycle-Vote, I supported it enthusiastically, so it is amazing to see it come to pass. Great work!
As to I's request for ways to improve it: Any chance of a second visualisation from steet level? That might have more emotional impact.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Murrayfield Community Council meeting tonight. The fun and games start at 7.30 and there's a packed agenda:
http://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/inc/retrieve_file.php?id=232
Also the minutes of the private meeting to discuss co-opting people on to MCC. I'm not clear about whether the Roseburn Cycle Group and the Roseburn Traders have been cooped on or not?
http://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/inc/retrieve_file.php?id=232
Posted 8 years ago # -
@wadler a street view like this? If anyone has a good quality picture or can find a better angle on street view let me know. It'll be ideal to get the best possible background before I invest time on it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
That StreetView version is great as it shows at least three to let signs (inc bank).
Posted 8 years ago # -
Best of luck to those going. I have family commitments tonight so won't make it. It's a shame we have to miss out on having a life just to prove to those that wasted theirs.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
cyclistsinthecity (@citycyclists)
29/11/2016, 16:42
The new cycle highways & one cycle quietway seeing big increases in number of ppl cycling http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-161130-07-cycle-quietways.pdfhttp://pic.twitter.com/iIdtNXR2Oe
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just me and Rosie this evening (plus someone beside me who admitted later to being a CCE lurker: waves to lurker - come join us!)
Not a fun night. Again. Nothing new, just a rehash of all the previous meetings.
Mr Smart spoke at length about the developments in the stakeholder group. He still says that there is no loading under Option A. He said that the cycle lane is "a disaster for all life". He wants cyclists banned from the park but realises that is impractical so would only enforce the ban at weekends. He says that the council are deceiving people and it's a political plot. He hates Lesley Hinds ("that Hinds woman"). He still doesn't understand Copenhagen junctions and is confusing them with floating bus stops (which are dangerous. Definitively). He says that Option B is safer for cyclists. He says that the design of Option B is absurd because pedestrians and cyclists want to take the straightest route and Option B is winding.
Other points:
- the Community policeman is disgusted by the double parking and general bad behaviour near the primary school (and all schools). He actually said that parents who did it were morally wrong.
- PG had asked the policeman about the "accident blackspot" (PG's words) of the crossing at Roseburn Terrace.
There are some signs of reason on MCC though. One councillor expressed concern about the way they appear to have come to a view without having a debate or a vote. He said he didn't feel right expressing a view as there was such a split in views in the area that it should be reflected. The representative from Friends of Roseburn Park said he favoured Option A. Another said that the cycle track was going to happen in one form or another and MCC should work constructively to get the best result for everyone.
I did my best to make as many points as I could but I don't have HankChief's calmness so probably was ranting. Fortunately I'd taken printouts with kaputnik's excellent schematic of the loading/parking and also i's visualisation so was able to point out some of the errors in Mr Smart's comments. To no avail though.
I confess I did lose my temper when PG started pushing his "survey". I said that it was a textbook example for 1st year undergraduates in how not to undertake a survey, and pointed out some of the many flaws in it. It didn't help but felt therapeutic. PG did look taken aback to be confronted.
All in all another waste of time. The WalkCycleVote training about engagement was wasted on me: I don't think I built any bridges tonight.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Thanks stickman for stamina in face of unreason
Posted 8 years ago # -
He still doesn't understand Copenhagen junctions and is confusing them with floating bus stops
Hard to believe he was once a planner.
Perhaps too many lead pipes in his house? Or perhaps he made hats for a living before he became a planner?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@stickman - bravo - as ever
Posted 8 years ago # -
"the Community policeman is disgusted by the double parking and general bad behaviour near the primary school (and all schools). He actually said that parents who did it were morally wrong."
So he'll be planning some enforcement?
I note that St. Peter's and Sciennes have (temporary) vehicle counters on the roads with the flashing lights. I presume they are comparing with before the 'school streets' scheme was introduced.
Presume they will release the data(?)
Posted 8 years ago # -
@stickman - you may not be building bridges but it's good that for instance the 1 dissenter on the MCC knows there's support from the public. Folk have made up their minds. I thought you presented our case pretty well.
The bloke who was pressing the vote (obviously fed up with it) had come to the conclusion that there is no point opposing the track per se - it's going to happen - & taking the long view that is an advance.
Mr Smart's big motivation is a dislike for cyclists - it's obvious there's no way you could ban them in Roseburn Park at the weekend as he suggested. The banning days - in the Meadows, Inverleith Park - are now over. PG was quick to say that they don't want to do anything about cyclists in Roseburn Park. Of course the sensible thing would be to divert most cyclists on a faster, more direct route than the Park - eg Corstorphine Road...
I'd love to see what would happen if they tried a ban..
& the issue of badly behaving cyclists somehow not deserving sensible infrastructure came up.
On another note the nice little cafe in Murrayfield Place is seeking to expand to the florist's next door. Of course this is opposed - rattling bottles on collection days - but I'm really glad they're doing well enough to expand, and as they are wanting to open until 12am that suggests a decent restaurant, which would be most welcome.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chdot: yes, they will be doing enforcement at various schools.
Also forgot to mention that they are still keen on the idea of coning the road off for a week to see the traffic chaos. Both Frank Ross and Jeremy Balfour in favour apparently. They are casting doubt on the traffic modelling so want the experiment done. This wouldn't be until after Christmas, delaying things further. I think Balfour is stalling for time to get it run out before the next election.
I did try to make the point that a temporary trial wouldn't prove anything, traffic would adapt, things worked out when Russell Road closed after people got used to it. Fell on deaf ears I'm afraid.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"@stickman - you may not be building bridges but it's good that for instance the 1 dissenter on the MCC knows there's support from the public. Folk have made up their minds. I thought you presented our case pretty well."
Good that people are bothering to 'engage'.
Not much chance of mass change of minds, but this -
"One councillor expressed concern about the way they appear to have come to a view without having a debate or a vote. He said he didn't feel right expressing a view as there was such a split in views in the area that it should be reflected."
is quite encouraging.
Obviously an awareness that CCs are legally obliged to (try to) reflect the views of people in the area - not just those who bother to be on CCs.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I did try to make the point that a temporary trial wouldn't prove anything, traffic would adapt, things worked out when Russell Road closed after people got used to it. Fell on deaf ears I'm afraid."
Yes, but surely that's the point, if Option A goes ahead people will adapt.
If a trial shows that in fact there is no 'traffic chaos' opposition will reduce.
As long as the trial involves the sort of barriers that can't be pushed aside by illegal parkers, it should all be fine.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"the issue of badly behaving cyclists somehow not deserving sensible infrastructure came up"
Presumably they also think that 'badly behaving drivers' don't deserving sensible infrastructure?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"PG did look taken aback to be confronted."
Ah, how I enjoyed reading that sentence.
"a textbook example for 1st year undergraduates in how not to undertake a survey"
Chortle.
"the Community policeman is disgusted by the double parking and general bad behaviour near the primary school (and all schools). He actually said that parents who did it were morally wrong."
Good to see this.
"I note that St. Peter's and Sciennes have (temporary) vehicle counters on the roads with the flashing lights. I presume they are comparing with before the 'school streets' scheme was introduced."
Same at Abbeyhill PS too.
"yes, they will be doing enforcement at various schools."
I certainly hope so!
"Hard to believe he was once a planner."
Presumably in the days when planning was all about ploughing motorways through the centre of cities, building ring roads and knocking up big concrete multi storey tower blocks to house former tenement dwellers? Hardly surprising he doesn't know what a Copenhagen junction is, he's still dreaming of parking spaces for all and nested flyovers leading to six lane bypasses.
Posted 8 years ago # -
MCC needs a big mirror and for the more reasonable participants to demonstrate that they are a parody of the worst example of a community council.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@gembo: there was some light relief when there was a lengthy absurdist discussion about whether to have a vote about the MCC position on the cycle track. After much debate it was decided that they should have a vote about whether to have a vote. The vote passed and a vote was then held. The alternative option, to vote to have another meeting in order to have a vote, was not voted on.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
Councillor Frank Ross, the city’s digital champion, said: “It is great news as everyone will be able to get free outdoor access to the latest information on their favourite apps and websites while they are out and about over the festive season and beyond. “It is also really important that we are providing this kind of quality service to the millions of residents and visitors who enjoy our city each year to ensure they have access to all the information they need.”
"
My bold
Maybe it will help counteract all the misinformation out there(?)
Oh dear, might not reach Roseburn...
"
introduced on a phased basis throughout central Edinburgh, from Queen Street to the Meadows and Haymarket to Holyrood Park.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
Good job, Stickman.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Sounds like hell, well done for getting through it without punching anyone, Stickman.
Mr Smart (who's a neighbour of mine so I've had a few doorstep chats) seems particularly put out by the fact that they had a massive MCC effort a few years ago to persuade the council to widen the pavement on Roseburn Terrace (you can see it on the north side, there are different blocks near the road edge) and he probably now sees this as "undoing" all their hard work. Nothing like having the big guys come in and wave their magic wand and all your hard work goes unrecognised...
And yes I think he's of the era when they tried to turn the Meadows into a motorway, just sad that it never worked.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"when they tried to turn the Meadows into a motorway"
No, no, The Meadows would have been fine, the ring road would have been on stilts!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@LivD: yes, he made frequent reference to his desire to widen the pavement by a further 0.6m and how the cycle lane would stop this forever. I didn't get a chance to ask him how that was going to solve traffic congestion, etc or whether it would just be an extra bit of pavement for the local businesses to park on.
Posted 8 years ago # -
It's OK, if there are only 6 bikes an hour then pedestrians and pavement parkers can just use the bike lane instead. Problem solved!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Must admit that despite having enjoyed my 2+ years living in the roseburn area I'm quite excited to be moving away to somewhere a little less... car centric. Even though it means I'll have a "proper" bike commute if I want to get anywhere near the centre, the attitudes and way that things are moving in Roseburn is pretty tough.
Kudos to those of you fighting the good fight. I have tried to do my bit including speaking to the shop owners whenever I go in and loudly proclaiming the I wish the cycling provision was better at every opportunity.
Posted 8 years ago #
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