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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. crowriver
    Member

    "I don't understand the game of 'don't share on the internet' during some public consultations"

    Perhaps an attempt to head off the PG Tips of the consultation scene?

    I haven't bothered to go to any of the information sessions. I shall have a look at the plans online when they go up.

    "the council rep said that the kerb between the road and cycle lane would deter people from parking on it."

    Yeah, that's worked on Leith Walk. Not. I also understand the new Glasgow cycle lane has become a car park too, and it's not even open yet.

    Alas, we can't have mini-Hollands or mini-Copenhagens without Dutch or Danish levels of enforcement.....not enough to just build the infrastructure.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  2. Stickman
    Member

    Plans now online:

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20016/roads_travel_and_parking/263/view_or_comment_on_traffic_orders

    Posted 6 years ago #

  3. HankChief
    Member

    Coming very soon is an annotated version of the designs, highlighting the good points for everyone.

    Will be on the Roseburn Cycle Group Website later this morning. It may be worth waiting for those drawing before publicising to your contacts.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  4. Stickman
    Member

    I should say that despite my cynicism over the parking enforcement I think the plans are good. I felt slightly bad asking the ever enthusiastic and positive council chap (Ruaridh?) about some relatively minor nitpicking points.

    If built then I'll be using it every day and my wife (who won't cycle in traffic) will finally be able to cycle to her work.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    “my wife (who won't cycle in traffic) will finally be able to cycle to her work”

    Is she willing to be publicly identified?

    (COMPLETELY understand if answer is NO.)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  6. Stickman
    Member

    Sorry, no.

    Her route would be Corstorphine to Haymarket: going via Pinkhill path with the upgraded WoL path at Roseburn Park and the CCEWL then the only on-road section would be Baird Drive. It would be genuinely transformational for her (and no doubt many others).

    Just get on with building it!

    Posted 6 years ago #

  7. HankChief
    Member

    Annotated drawings available by following the links on here.

    https://www.roseburncycleroute.org.uk/tro-and-rso-consultation-20th-april-18th-may-2018

    Please share these drawings, like this tweet did.

    And importantly PLEASE DO RESPOND to the TRO process

    Posted 6 years ago #

  8. Stickman
    Member

    Just to check: I thought the TRO process only took account of objections? So supporting comments, while demonstrating support, won't actually have any effect on designs?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  9. HankChief
    Member

    That's what I thought, but the drop in boards said

    "Please provide your comments including objections and letters of support"

    So I'm taking that as we should send in positive support (as well as pointing out any shortcomings)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  10. Stickman
    Member

    Ta. Don't think I spotted anything I'd realistically expect to be improved so a full and effusive letter will be being sent.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  11. neddie
    Member

    Please be very careful when writing comments of support to the TRO/RSO.

    If you make objections at the same time, it may be seen as an overall objection, as the officers err on the side of caution and default to "objection"!

    Posted 6 years ago #

  12. Morningsider
    Member

    Objections to a TRO that limits loading, creates a one-way system or restricts the use of a road by buses or other other specified vehicles will trigger a public hearing - conducted by a Scottish Government Reporter. The Reporter will consider the objections and write a report with recommendations for the Council. The Council will consider this report in deciding whether to approve the TRO (usually following the recommendations).

    Objections to TROs that do not cover any of the above are considered by the Council, when deciding whether to approve the TRO.

    While letters of support have no formal role in this process, they will be noted by the Reporter and might help swing the views of Councillors, who ultimately make the decision. So I think they are worth submitting.

    Full details in the Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (Scotland) Regulations 1999.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  13. Stickman
    Member

    These plans *change* loading provision but if I recall correctly they don't limit it compared to now. Roseburn Gardens is becoming one-way. No restrictions are created.

    Guess this one will be going to the reporter. Sigh.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  14. toomanybikes
    Member

    I don't really understand what's happening opposite Stanhope Street on the design. Pedestrian waiting area in the middle of the lane for some reason?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  15. Frenchy
    Member

    Looks like a pedestrian waiting area between the cycleway and the carriageway. Is that right?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  16. HankChief
    Member

    It's all a bit tight with the exit from Donaldson's. There could be cyclists wanting to cross there so the waiting area will be shared by peds and bikes.

    There is good visibility there, but it might help to have a ped button to the north of the cycle path. Assuming the are quick acting lights there shouldn't be much waiting.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  17. neddie
    Member

    I'm interested to know how the pedestrian crossing at the junction of Roseburn Tce / Russel Rd will work...

    Will pedestrians get an "all directions" phase?

    If so, will bikes be expected to stop? If so, will they have their own separate light for westbound bikes? There's no reason for bikes to stop there because of traffic, so if bikes are required to stop, then it should only be when the pedestrian phase is on and not whenever the motors stop.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  18. toomanybikes
    Member

    "Assuming the are quick acting lights " Seems a bold move in Edinburgh, some of our crossings really take pedestrian to a whole new meaning. Surely the button should be to the North of the path, can't see any valid reason for it to be otherwise.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  19. HankChief
    Member

    @neddie - exactly that. Ped all green which is the only thing to stop the cycle track.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  20. neddie
    Member

    Ped all green which is the only thing to stop the cycle track

    OK, but how will cyclists know that? Will they have their own special light?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  21. HankChief
    Member

    Yes

    Posted 6 years ago #

  22. neddie
    Member

    Cool bananas

    Posted 6 years ago #

  23. acsimpson
    Member

    "Guess this one will be going to the reporter. Sigh."

    That does seem likely unfortunately although I'm optimistically assuming that the only reason for an Autumn 2019 turf breaking target is to ensure the process can run it's course. Hopefully the reporter will realise that this has already been consulted to death and all appropriate changes made and that the objectors are just being objectionable.

    Having seen the EEN attempting to get mileage in the past by reporting small numbers of supported to TROs I think getting the numbers of supported reported to be as high as possible is a good idea. As neddie says unless you really do think that something needs changed before building can start now may not be the best time to include suggestions for changes.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  24. HankChief
    Member

    Murrayfield Community Council meeting 7.30pm tonight. CCWEL is on the agenda...

    https://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/events/community-council-meeting-1-may-2018

    Posted 6 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    “CCWEL is on the agenda”

    They’ll all be in favour(?)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  26. Stickman
    Member

    How did it go last night? Are the angry hordes still angry?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  27. Rosie
    Member

    @Stickman

    Yes, the old familiar faces were there, making the same arguments eg why can't people use loading bays to buy bacon rolls?

    There's been conflict between some cyclists and pedestrians in Roseburn Park. There is of course an easy solution - bring the cycle route further along to the Murrayfield Road/Riversdale Crescent intersection and eliminate Roseburn Park altogether - but I doubt if anyone would have taken that on board.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  28. gembo
    Member

    Conflict in Roseburn Park 1

    Cyclist: ring, ring (friendly tone)
    Colonel Codger: No reaction as a bit deaf
    Cyclist (bit closer now) Ring ring (just alerting you I am here)
    colonel Codger : Still deaf
    Cyclist (passing the colonel) Morning Squire
    colonel Codger : Buy yourself a bell
    Cyclist: Buy yourself a hearing aid
    Colonel Codger: You cheeky young blighter I shall be reporting this to Murrayfield Community Council and wasting constabulary time on it too as something must be done

    Posted 6 years ago #

  29. wingpig
    Member

    @gembo To be fair to people reporting cycling nuisances in Roseburn Park, I was there for a total of fifteen minutes the other week doing PoP chalking and saw several turnips going extremely fast and being very rude.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  30. HankChief
    Member

    Similar to Wingpig I have seen some turnips going through the park too fast.

    One question for Roseburn Park is whether the trial of a white line down the path is making conflicts more or less likely.

    One chain of thought is that it increases tribalism and you are on my side so fair game for buzzing past.

    My initial thought are that lines down the middle are better if users are heading in a consistent direction I.e. MMW. I'm not sure they work as well when people are bimbling / walking a dog like they do in Roseburn Park.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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