CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
It's a frequently overlooked point but of course the commercial benefits of the cycleway (should there be any) will be collected by the landlords of the commercial premises there once leases fall due for review.
Without land value taxation infrastructure spend inevitably leaks into the pockets of adjacent land owners.
Can’t wait for the agenda: will the Roseburn Traders appear before the delegation from Corstorphine Community Council speaking about the effect of too much traffic in the local area?
PG is running a Project Fear among the traders, and tells stories of how some can't sleep at night for fear of losing business.
Now it may be their fears will be justified. This coincides with Brexit times, which is likely to hit the economy (already has - people are uncertain and spending less).
However if they are not, he's been deliberately stoking anxiety.
“Now it may be their fears will be justified. This coincides with Brexit times, which is likely to hit the economy (already has - people are uncertain and spending less).”
Indeed.
Even without Brexit, the internet and all the other things outwith ‘ordinary’ people’s control, there are few certainties.
Small businesses often drift into a mindset where the attitude can be ‘I’ve made the effort to start this business so I need support from customers and the authorities’.
That street is hardly the most attractive place to want to shop. ‘We’ might argue that the traffic has a lot to do with that, others might believe it’s ‘parking restrictions’.
Both will be partly right.
It’s easy to believe that the cycle route, extra pedestrian crossing will help the traders. It’s also easy to believe that any upheaval will result in shops closing (see tramworks/Leith Walk).
But the simple truth is that in recent years many businesses - big and small - in many streets have closed. They didn’t all have cyclelanes built outside.
The petition will be heard on Tuesday.
Amazing.
We predict we will lose money from loss of parking
How many spaces are being lost?
Legal parking spaces lost minimal but the illegal Bays we leave our own cars parked in and watch out for the wardens, they will go.
So you want us to compensate you For no longer being able to park illegally?
“So you want us to compensate you For no longer being able to park illegally?”
I think you may be onto something...
(Though you didn’t mention bacon roll loading.)
Margins amongst traders are so tight that they cannot afford to pay for parking. No traders have considered Bromptons et cetera. Or the bus. Bacon roll loading bay is across the road but might as well be at the end of the world.
Traders will obviously agree to pay the council any increased profit brought by the bike lane.
We note that the Council presented studies from around the world showing cycle tracks would either have no impact or would increase trade. We therefore hope we will not need to make a claim on this fund.
The Roseburn Backstop. Clever.
Of course any increase in profit from the cycle track should be recovered by the city to pay for the infrastructure.
Otherwise we're just investing in neighbouring landlords' profits.
A cycle tracks tax?
Just the normal way of recovering the benefits of public spending for the public in many countries.
I watched the presentation:
- Traders very concerned about loss of parking/loading. Much made of having to carry large lanes of glass to the picture framer and other heavy goods.
- Picture framer said his business has dropped 75% in last 10 years, cafe by 30% in last 3 years
- said that a big part of the cafe business is workies stopping for a bacon roll in the morning. No one pointed out that this wasn’t allowed under current loading restrictions
- they made the comparison to an insurance policy that doesn’t pay out if not needed, so no cost to the council. Didn’t mention any payment of insurance premiums though
- brilliantly, they complained about the length of time this is all taking: possibly because they all objected to everything at every opportunity.
Lesley Macinnes stonewalled them on a compensation scheme and instead suggested working with them to develop an “open for business” adverting campaign etc
“Picture framer said his business has dropped 75% in last 10 years, cafe by 30% in last 3 years”
Must be the uncertainty about the cycle lane.
Or maybe all the hostility and publicity making them look like the sort of places people don’t want to shop?
“working with them to develop an “open for business” adverting campaign etc”
Including explaining the parking/waiting times/rules?
Picture framer said his business has dropped 75% in last 10 years, cafe by 30% in last 3 years
a) What was the proposed cause?
b) How have other framers and cafes fared in the same period?
The Great Crash was ten years ago. Money has been hoovered out of pockets and off to the British Virgin Islands ever since.
Think his point was more that they can’t afford any further falls in trade.
Is a business sustainable if turnover drops by 75 per cent? Maybe if you own the premises.
Where could I find the latest version of the plans? It's a big thread and my memory isn't what it used to be.
Not forgetting -
Thanks guys.
So just for clarity the safe way east bound is still through the park? And heading west how does one leave the cycle lane? And is the best option back through the park? Sorry I was trying to explain to someone in work and I realised I fully taken in the plan myself.
The cycle path starts/finishes on the North side of Roseburn Terrace by the old Colt bridge.
The safest way to/from there will be through the Park and the signalised crossing of the A8.
However it will still be possible to use the path to/from that point and the A8 West of Roseburn with varying levels of convenience in the transition between them.
East(/city)bound you would take the A8 bus lane and then enter the path at the dropped kerb for the Crossing by Roseburn Gardens to the start of the cycle path. You'd need to watch the toes of any one waiting for the Crossing on the kerbside.
West(/out)bound you could follow the cycle path to the end and then wait for the signalised crossing before joining the A8 rather than going down Roseburn Gardens to the park.
Of course once they build the cycleway all along the A8 to Corstorphine, the Park could be left to dog walkers...
Of course once they build the cycleway all along the A8 to Corstorphine
@harts mentioned this in his presentation at Transport Committee. He knocked it out of the park. I nominate him for Edinburgh Transport Mayor.
(Starts at 39 mins in)
*Applause for @harts*
@harts doing an immeasurably better job that Edinburgh's Cycling Champion (whose name I can't remember, and who has been completely invisible in the media - are they sure they didn't mean Hide & Seek Champion?)
David Key stood down as Cycling Champion quite a while ago due to personal circumstances, which explains his (recent) invisibility.
The council changed the role to Active Travel Champion, but no one has been appointed.
But yes, fantastic work by @Harts there.
“but no one has been appointed”
Mmm, typical CEC.
I’d vote for Mowat or Whyte.
Of course not in Capital Coalition so probably not ‘eligible’ - though in reality more so.
That presentation by @HartsCyclery was embarrassing. For our councillors, journalists, MSPs and transport planners.
Lucid, calm, fact-based and coherent. All I ever hear form those people in respect of planning our cities is microscopic triangular trouble-shooting. No sense of what a nice place to live might look or feel like.
An environment where kids wander into bike shops sounds like an excellent test of place.
To be fair, I think that certain members of the council at the councillor level, e.g. Lesley Macinnes, do get active travel & placemaking.
It's just the whole council is paralysed and unable to do anything for fear of moving one parking space. Further down the hierarchy, there also seems to be some old-fashioned, white, middle-aged+, "roads men*" at the helm, still with the mind set of "traffic flow"
*I use 'men' deliberately here
Maybe a FOI on the diversity of the roads team is required...?
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