@neddie no need for an FOI ypu are correct. Two effing years to get the correct signage atop new street to stop the feckers driving down.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
(5537 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
-
Had a look at the webcast, and Mr Hart was very good.
Speaking as a Roseburn resident, I am humiliated that our small business owners and Community Council are so outclassed...
Posted 5 years ago # -
Roseburn Cycle Group are holding their AGM on Monday 25th March at 7.30pm in Murrayfield Parish Church Halls.
https://www.roseburncycleroute.org.uk/blog/agm-25th-march-new-privacy-policy-and-latest-ccwel-news
Posted 5 years ago # -
Why would Whyte be better than nothing as a cycle champion? To try to force him not to say counter productive things like this?
https://twitter.com/CllrWhyte/status/1101560631898107904?s=09
Posted 5 years ago # -
Doddie Moonbat on good but futile form.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
Small business owners should not be at risk of losing their livelihood on account of the council pushing through plans that virtually nobody in the area wanted.
“
Posted 5 years ago # -
The large number of positives responses to the pro-petition and consultations would seem to corroborate that that is indeed a fallacy. I'm not sure why this crowd think that spouting lies is a good way to get people to trust and support them.
It strikes me that if a business shrinks by 75% in 10 years there is a good chance it is going to continue shrinking for the next few years regardless of what happens outside it's doors.
It may or may not be slightly trickier for them to receive deliveries once the changes are made. However it will definitely be much easier for potential customers to get to their shop.
Posted 5 years ago # -
A new debating point has come out of the woodwork about the air pollution in Roseburn Terrace...
Because of the layout of the street, vaguely perpendicular to the prevailing wind, the traffic pollution rotates around the canyon with the top going windward and the bottom going leeward (I.e. south) until it meets the shop fronts, where it gets trapped / circulates up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_canyon
The argument being raised is that by the motor traffic being nearer to the southern shop fronts this will cause more pollution to be trapped and will increase pollution levels.
(This takes not account of reducing traffic volumes etc)
Interested to get the hive-mind's view on this...
Posted 5 years ago # -
*beats head repeatedly against desk*
Posted 5 years ago # -
@HankChief
You are experiencing a Gish Gallop.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time“
WHY HAVEN’T WE HEARD ABOUT THIS BEFORE?!!
(Especially recently...)
Posted 5 years ago # -
Well, if they are going to be silly - tell them to read "Theurer W. 1999. Typical building arrangements for urban air pollution modelling. Atmospheric Environment 33, 4057-
4066."This shows that edge vortexes, created by the corners of the tenements at either end of a street canyon, in canyons under 200m long interfere with the formation of the cavity vortexes you highlight - known as the "dilution effect". The shorter the canyon the greater the dilution effect.
Given that the Roseburn "canyon" is effectively one short block of tenements, it seems unlikely that the situation raised by the anti's would ever occur in any meaningful way.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Rhymes with Gish certainly. Lot of this Gish came out during the Waltham Village campaign. The borough held firm against the gammon and this area of London is now a paradise of clean air and traffic free travel. Even for those of a gammon constitution
Brandolini's law also in that wiki link
Posted 5 years ago # -
Interested to get the hive-mind's view on this...
Mostly swear words.
I'm also sceptical about the prevailing wind being perpendicular enough to Roseburn Terrace for this argument to apply to Roseburn Terrace, even if it is true. It wouldn't take much wind going along Roseburn Terrace to just make the whole point moot.
Also, as if it needs to be said, the only thing anyone who actually cares about NO2 levels on Roseburn Terrace should be doing is reducing traffic levels. Everything else is rearranging deckchairs.
Posted 5 years ago # -
It may not be lying exactly end on to the prevailing wind, but anyone who walks/cycles along it will know that the tenements act as a wind funnel, so any SW wind inveivatbly blows straight down the street. (ignoring the fact the whole thing is pish anyway)
Posted 5 years ago # -
I've never felt Roseburn Terrace was much of a wind tunnel compared to the champion tunnels among the high-rises in eg Semple Street, where I was blown off one day and broke a wrist. The tenements aren't high enough.
Also businesses being frightened away - the pharmacy there is moving into bigger premises at the old Scotbet, across the street. WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO HAVE TO DRIVE TO PICK UP THEIR PRESCRIPTIONS?
Posted 5 years ago # -
The guy apparently has measurements which show the south side has more pollution. 43 vs 32
Posted 5 years ago # -
I'm sure they've been robustly collected and subject to peer review...
Posted 5 years ago # -
I'd suggest that anyone who has the patience to engage with this argument without immediately resorting to swearing should:
- Ask for more details about the measurements purportedly showing a difference in pollution levels between the north and south sides of the street. (How many times was this measured? Were the measurements conducted systematically? Where exactly were measurements taken? How high off the ground? At what time of day? Were more vehciles going into or out of town at the time? What direction was the wind blowing? These are all very important details.
- Ask for more details about why they think a cycle lane will affect this. The "canyon" argument is that pollution from the whole street gets pushed into the southern pavement. If that's the case, then it won't matter much where in the street cars are actually emitting pollution, since it apparently all gets swept into the southern pavement area.
- Take a hip flask.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Wot @Frenchy said. ^^^
Given that what will be the cycle lane is mostly just parking these days anyway, surely most stuff is in the central lane?
Also, won’t less be queuing in the canyon given the light phasing changes? (Might queue further back over the bridge, but fewer lanes in the canyon at any one time)Posted 5 years ago # -
Their job is done, easiest way to distract people who believe in fact based decision making is to throw something incorrect at them so they have to spend a week disproving is
Posted 5 years ago # -
Rejuvenating Roseburn Consultation now open. Closes 7th May.
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/rejuvenating-roseburn/
Posted 5 years ago # -
Tempted to comment that none of these changes should go ahead unless and until the cycle lane is completed.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@ Klaxon - yes the words "vexatious claim" are very apt, considering this is vexing and time-wasting.
However you know the quote about a lie being half way round the world before the truth gets its bootstraps on.
Substitute hysteria for "lie" and reason for "truth".
Common in political campaigning.
Still, they should turn this into a meme.
"Cycles cause pollution"
Posted 5 years ago # -
They don't care about pollution. Otherwise they would all STOP. DRIVING.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“Permission for the first section of the cycle route, from Haymarket to Roseburn, will be subject to a public hearing during the summer following objections to traffic regulation orders. The proposals will need to be approved by the transport and environment committee, with construction expected to start early in 2020 and be completed by the end of 2021.”
Seven years to get one section of cycle lane built.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Back to the guy making the pollution claims: I’d like to know why, of all the projects going on across the city which will potentially affect traffic and pollution, it is this particular small section of cycle lane that he is objecting to? I wonder what his real interest in this is.
Posted 5 years ago # -
PG has posted a plea for funds for his NHS whistleblowing hotline on the Friends of Roseburn Park Facebook group. Is it just me or is that a bit off?
Posted 5 years ago # -
It's not just you.
Posted 5 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
