Not literally, of course...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
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Posted 8 years ago #
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Anyone know if MCC or local traders campaigned for or against 20mph for Roseburn Terrace?
Seems unfortunate that it's due to remain 30 when Haymarket T and (part of) StJRd will be 20 according to
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20243/20mph_for_edinburgh/1240/map_of_proposed_20mph_streets
Seems at odds with CEC talk about 20mph for "shopping streets".
Posted 8 years ago # -
I may be wrong but I don't think stopping off to buy bacon rolls could ever be loading regardless of size or numbers. Presumably for it to be loading the rolls would have to have been purchased previously or an invoice being sent. Buying bacon rolls is shopping and to be shopping you would need to be parked.
Similarly to take your sewing machine (other large goods available) into a shop could be considered loading but you would then need to move your vehicle to a parking space should you be doing more than simply dropping it off/collecting it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
You are allowed to park 0930-4 on the south side in the loading bay. That's it. And that bay is still there in the new proposals. The only grounds for objection is that there won't be loading on the north side. Which, is a non-issue, because that's the delivery driver's problem, not the businesses getting delivered to. (I appreciate that cafe owners probably do their own cash and carry run, but they'll just need to buy a decent trolley.)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Re Roseburn shopping centre.
I have lived in Roseburn Street since 1999. I work in Fountainbridge, so I don't use the shops for day to day shopping except for Tesco's for bits and bobs. Big shop is in Sainsbury's at Westfield on the way home. I moaned about the imperial reach of Tesco's when it arrived, thus closing a corner shop type of place run by immigrants but now I use it all the time.
1. It should be a nice shopping street with a village feel, given its setting by the Water of Leith, like the one at the bottom of Inverleith Row/Ferry Road. However the A8 thundering through and the narrow pavements make that impossible. It's the kind of middle class area where you'd expect to find delis, a wine shop, a good butcher's, a café with outside chairs.
2. Vigo is an offshoot of Victor Hugo's in Marchmont. An elderly Italian bloke who used to work at Victor Hugo is still there. He tried to make it a delicatessen but that didn't work. So now it's an upmarket sandwich shop/cafe & it's very pleasant. As other have said, should have outdoor chairs as in Bruntsfield.
3. The butcher's, a fairly ordinary one closed a few years back.
4. There used to be a post office, which has gone the way of most post offices. Now the nearest ones are in Gorgie. Costorphine or the Haymarket. In this, it's following the pattern of post offices throughout the country.
5. Bank has closed. That again is the pattern. There is a new dentist now replacing the building society.
6. Good wine shop was tried and then closed a few years ago.
7. Small antique and bric a brac shop – quite a nice one.
8. Delta curry place. Takeaway only. Very good and has a reputation so people will drive there to pick up phone orders.
9. Fish and chip shop – not good (at least when I last tried it).
10. Odds and sods specialist shops like the framing shop, which has been there for ages and the new Hound place and fancy cake shop. I imagine people do drive there to pick up orders.
The area is an excellent transport hub. The direct link to the airport and the nearness to the tram make airbnb & the like quite popular (I rented out my spare room during the Festival and will do it again this year). In the tourist times you'll see foreigners pushing airline bags about and looking for their accommodation.
To them I recommend:- the Roseburn Café (cheap and cheerful); Vigo (laid back); genteel & upmarket Cafe Colpamia in Murrayfield Place next to florist – further back from the A8 so can sit outside; also the Murrayfield Bar for standard pub food and the very agreeable local, the Roseburn Bar, which has a big handsome public bar like those you get in London. Also the takeaway places.
It is not quite a hidden gem but people who move there (as I did) are pleasantly surprised by Roseburn Park and the proximity to the Water of Leith and the NEPN (which is a walking path too of course). Also the Victorian town-houses of Murrayfield up to Corstorphine Hill are pleasant walks in themselves.
The proximity of the stadium probably puts people off & it means that you have to move your car on match days. I rather like the rugby crowds and the general buzz and slight carnival atmosphere they bring. They're well behaved on the whole. You have to schedule your comings and goings so you're not pushing against a current of spectators.
So – shopping centre has definite potential as a go to and hang about area if you could tame the A8. However I have some sympathy for those business owners who have custom that relies on the car to a degree – either as sneaky stoppers to buy bacon rolls or picker uppers of stuff they have ordered.
Posted 8 years ago # -
As seen on Flickr -
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Anyone know if MCC or local traders campaigned for or against 20mph for Roseburn Terrace?"
Jeremy Balfour told me he supported my suggestion of extending 20mph further along St John's Road and also including Balgreen Road, so he certainly *should* have backed 20mph on Roseburn Terrace.
Of course, emails to constituents may not translate to public action...
Posted 8 years ago # -
...and that confirmation of loading restrictions has made my day...
Posted 8 years ago # -
@eddie I'm getting a bit confused about this sign. Is it loading only between 0930-4 on the south side?
Posted 8 years ago # -
One problem with parking near such shopping streets is that there is usually little chance of 'parking round the corner for 20 mins' due to amount of/priority for residents parking.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Rosie:
And if the Roseburn/Canal path is also built then all of a sudden Roseburn becomes the locus of all sorts of people who would never stop there previously: for example families from all over Edinburgh going to and from the zoo, Cramond, the meadows, the canal. And they'll be spending money, even if it's just to buy a bottle of water or a snack.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"One problem with parking near such shopping streets is that there is usually little chance of 'parking round the corner for 20 mins' due to amount of/priority for residents parking."
That was my experience when living there. E.g. bottom of Murrayfield Avenue very busy usually. You're often up to Henderland Road before you start seeing spaces (hardly a long walk to the shops mind you).
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Stickman
Yes - the Roseburn/Canal path will make an excellent walk, with easy drop off points for those who want to get the bus back.Posted 8 years ago # -
Petition latest:
Anti: 154
Pro: 405Posted 8 years ago # -
My concern with the petition is that folk are going round with clipboards for the anti. We could see the anti number jump quite a bit...
Posted 8 years ago # -
But if the petition is based on misleading information or on issues that can be refuted then surely numbers are less of an issue? Seems to me that we are starting to come up with responses to most of the points raised:
- the excellent leaflet pointing out that NCN1 isn't a suitable route
- that "parking" isn't actually parking
- "road safety" is an issue currently because of speeding cars/RLJs
- MCC's own development planI know that evidence and reason don't often work with council decisions though.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The anti-petition claims to have over 1000 signatures, most of them offline on paper lists in the shops; they will not be reflected in the online numbers. This number is difficult to verify and might contain duplicates, but could well be realistic.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The online petition site that's been used for the 'support' also doesn't check for duplicates, so I'd suggest that the creator is very careful to filter out accidental re-signatories
Neither can really be regarded as any more reliable than a straw poll
Posted 8 years ago # -
To be fair, HankChief's "for" petition does make that clear and directs people to the consultation.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"but could well be realistic"
Doesn't really matter.
This is not the 'democratic decider'.
Nor a case of 'on-line froth' v 'real world people'.
'This' is a small part of a much bigger project - presumably there are people objecting to other sections.
Obviously the paper petitioners are not helped by their easily dismissable allegations.
Even if the cafe owners are right and they choose to close, that is not a good enough reason for CEC to throw in the towel.
'We' cannot prove that the proposed changes will improve business, but there is plenty of evidence from elsewhere that it could.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Oh, and welcome Stephan Matthiesen - long time 'campaigner' on Twitter - just started contributing here.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Klaxon: AFAIK the ipetition system does refuse duplicates automatically. You may be able to cheat by using different email addresses, but in practice the issue is not deliberate fraud but "honest" duplicates.
Paper petitions have always had the problem that people sign several times, because they just don't remember if they've done it already a couple of days ago in a different shop. It's not just this specific one, I have seen this in many other petitions (I do remember the time before Internet when everybody had to distribute lists in shops...). With online petitions it can happen but is much less likely as most people don't tend to use many email addresses.
But yes, the only thing that matters is the consultation and (hopefully) the quality of the arguments.
Edit: chdot thanks for the welcome!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Re 20mph. When you travel on a main road in the country you come to a village and there'll be:-
Welcome to Claggmuckie
Please drive slowly
20mph?There'll be pinch points and road narrowing and slow downers. There's an acknowledgement that this is a VILLAGE, not a strip of houses on a main road. A place where people live and shop.
Roseburn does have a "village" feel. It should have exactly the same treatment.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Harts
My interpretation of the signs over the loading bays is this:
- Parking is not permitted in either of the bays, except on Saturday afternoon.
- Loading is permitted at any time in the North bay. Loading is only permitted in the South bay during off-peak daytime hours.
- Disabled can park anytime in either bay.The rest of the time (even Sunday), the bays are No Stopping.
I suspect the cafe owner will lose a fair amount of his morning business from vans heading East in the morning and stopping illegally. So really he is complaining about losing something he never really had in the first place.
Also, I'm intrigued as to why loading is permitted at all times in the North bay - you would think that it would be really important to keep this bay clear for morning rush hour heading into town. Especially since it blocks one lane of the junction (and motor traffic capacity is limited by junctions, not lanes elsewhere).
Perhaps there was some previous lobbying by the cafe/shops on the North side to get the loading rules relaxed?
Also of note is that the parking sign on the North is much newer than the one on the South (although this could be simply due to the sign colliding* with a truck!)
*To use newspaper parlance.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Roseburn does have a "village" feel. It should have exactly the same treatment."
And - for the 'main street' - has definable limits, between the two bridges.
Also the two rail bridges - Russell Road and Roseburn Street(?)
Anyone know why Murrayfield Station wasn't called Roseburn Station? (Presumably marketing!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Thanks, Eddie. That's why I asked, because it does seem odd that the in-town route has less restrictions than the out of town one. But, yes, that's how I read it too. Thanks for clarifying. I have emailed the council to get this confirmed too.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I wonder if it's possible to get a history of the TROs affecting a particular loading bay?
Posted 8 years ago # -
You get a great view of the railway viaduct from Coltbridge Avenue. You don't realise what a splendid structure it is when cycling over it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Anyone know why Murrayfield Station wasn't called Roseburn Station?"
Almost certainly because the railway and station were build on Murray's field before Roseburn was developed. "Roseburn" doesn't have a very old ring to it for me. From the maps in that very useful Murrayfield CC document, the area used to be quite industrial, and a nice Estate Agent style name would encourage people to live there.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"(although this could be simply due to the sign colliding* with a truck!)"
I think you meant that the sign lacked 'situational awareness'. (cf. Alan Sugar in the cognitive dissonance thread passim).
Posted 8 years ago #
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