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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. gembo
    Member

    Lovely video spotted many from this forum including Illustrious Leader. ALgo, Hankers, Roibeard, Hinchers, South American Dude, what was he called again? [Gembotron addds - Robby Vecchio]. IWRATs anorak overtaking Balerno’s slowest cyclist, IWRATS anorak alongside me all Tunnocks’d Up. And many many more of us. Lovely.

    Ends of course with PG picking his nose and booing and shouting where’s your helmet.

    But we engaged with them after that and despite many of them being fruitbats, many of them were just ill informed. Guy who sold me coffee in his shop was pro-cycling but not wanting to cause bother. He was fine.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Ah yes, me and the Gembotron crossed the road to engage as we were hardened doorsteppers back then. I do like trying to discombobulate the opposition's activists. It is a powerful technique of force multiplication similar to recruiting activists for your own side but nastier.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. algo
    Member

    I remember exemplary diplomacy by IWRATS and gembo. I got ambushed by angry dentist? man. "You are not local!". How local did I have to be? I live within a mile. Older posh ladies told me I must smell terrible when I get to work. That is true probably but independent of my mode of transport.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. gembo
    Member

    @algo, slowly over the series of the League of Gentlemen I fiNALLY realised that the Local Shop for Local People was really only for Tubbs, Her Husband and their son David upstairs. Then Papa Lazarus arrived and all bets were off. But it was Barbara they were no platformed for.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    “Apologies didn't realise Vimeo doesn't embed”

    No need to apologise, I’m sure it used to.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. acsimpson
    Member

    "Where's your helmet?" man was of course seen with his helmet getting into his car afterwards to drive to his "local" house.

    Also "These are local shops for local people." but our customers still need to drive here.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. HankChief
    Member

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/edinburgh-east-west-cycleway-shows-why-decision-making-system-must-be-quicker-adam-mcvey-2847665

    "The East-West cycleway is again on the agenda but building is yet to start. More than most, this example shows why councils need to be able to move to deliver projects without being tangled up in long processes. This project was agreed by all parties three-and-a-half years ago and it has been significantly held up by the elongated traffic regulation process. The system needs to be more fleet of foot if we’re going to be able to deliver long-term change across the Capital and we’re speaking to the Government and other bodies about how that can best be done."

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    “we’re speaking to the Government and other bodies about how that can best be done."

    Hope that includes Spokes(?)

    Maybe some of the individuals involved in this and other things like Picardy Place will contact Adam with suggestions.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. HankChief
    Member

    Exciting times...

    There is a very real possibility that the new powers could be used to create a Pop-up cycle lane along the A8 from Haymarket out to Corstorphine & beyond.

    We'd love to see it and even MCC is considering supporting it.

    If you want to see it, please write to your local Councillors / Community Council.

    Or at the very least retweet/like this tweet. https://twitter.com/RoseburnCycle/status/1261385691029663744?s=19

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. HankChief
    Member

    The internal dialogue within MCC continues. My contribution:

    "All,

    Having gathered the views of our members, it is perhaps not a surprise that we support the proposal for a pop up cycle route on the A8 out to Corstorphine, and I will set out why.

    The local shared use paths are currently full of people doing their daily exercise and there is sinply not space for more people cycling on these routes. Below is a tweet regarding the Pinkhill Railway which runs parallel to the A8.

    https://twitter.com/PidginPosting/status/1256563048304828416?s=19

    Councillors have also raised concerns from elderly residents saying they are scared to used shared paths because how busy they are.

    https://twitter.com/jomowat/status/1261401836549926912?s=19

    And given we have both UK & Scottish Governments calling for more people to cycle to leave the very limited space on buses/trams with physical distancing (only 10% of previous capacity has been quoted for London) for those who have no other option (only 60% of Edinburgh households have access to a car), we need to create space for those choosing to cycle and not on the shared paths.

    The A8 offers a direct route and could easily be converted with a pop-up cycle lane. This would give a clear message for those starting out cycling to use it. These are exactly the type of people who would otherwise be put off by sharing the road with motor vehicles and therefore heading to the shared paths.

    You'll recall that in last year's BikeLife survey 74%
    of residents supported building more protected
    on-road cycle tracks, even when this would
    mean less room for other road traffic, so there was already a lot of support for this kind of intervention. https://www.sustrans.org.uk/media/5965/bikelife19_edinburgh_web.pdf

    It should be noted that the data for Covid-19 shows a link between hospitalisation rates and obesity, so getting the population healthier through exercise is important in short term as well as longer term benefits.

    (This is behind a paywall but you can get the jist)
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/boris-johnson-to-launch-war-on-fat-after-coronavirus-scare-flgswhmvx

    And finally, whilst traffic levels are low we have the opportunity to put in a temporary cycle lane to see how many journeys previously done by car can be changed to other less polluting methods. We all want the economy to recover, but having seen massive reductions in air pollution in recent weeks, do we really want to rush back to car dominated streets without at least trying to build back better?

    And to answer a couple of specific comments from my fellow community Councillors.

    1. Pavements could also be widened in Roseburn Terrace, by way of a row of cones with a cycle lane outside.

    2.. Given the public health & economic crisis we are currently facing, I don't think that aesthetics should hold much sway in our decision making. As I understand the regulations, these interventions would only be allowed to remain for 18 months before being removed, which should give some comfort.

    3. We all want a thriving public transport system, but unfortunately confidence has taken a huge blow given the capacity issues I mention above. I don't see travel times as the critical feature of bus confidence just now, so the impact of sharing a traffic lane with cars to make space for a cycle lane is a sacrifice we think is worth making for now.

    We strongly support pop-up cycle lanes on the A8 and urge MCC to do so as well.

    Regards

    Henry
    Roseburn Cycle Support Group

    "

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. gembo
    Member

    @‘Chief, ain’t that gonna cause internal combustion with some of your fellow CCs?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. Stickman
    Member

    Excellent submission.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. Colin
    Member

    HankChief
    That’s an excellent letter - thank you and well done. Hope it has the desired effect.
    Cheers
    Colin

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. HankChief
    Member

    Thanks @colin. Hopefully it will, but there is quite a range of views within MCC including being against a temporary cycle lane as it will "cheapen the feel of the area" and that comes from one of the moderates...

    Our tweet has got over 100 likes which should mean something for decision makers.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. gembo
    Member

    @hankchief, I admire your stamina here. I would need powerful medication to attend the MCC.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. CycleAlex
    Member

    "cheapen the feel of the area"
    As we all know, property value takes precedence over public health in a global pandemic.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. acsimpson
    Member

    @cyclealex, thundering traffic and noxious fumes are so much better.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I don't think 'cheapen the feel' is a reference to money, it's a reference to tribal identity. These people are not bohemians or hippies and they don't need dream catchers, nose rings or cycle tracks.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. Rosie
    Member

    We should have barriers made out of wrought iron and stone. That would fit in with the area.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. Morningsider
    Member

    Tell them that a temporary cycle lane has been installed in Park Lane (London).

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. Rosie
    Member

    @Morningsider - PARK LANE IS NOT MURRAYFIELD

    The fact that it's temporary- if it turns out to be useless, you can take it down - considering all the other things we've had to endure in the current emergency, a few bollards don't look like much.

    Here's my letter to the Cllrs/Murrayfield CC:-

    These are of course extraordinary times.

    Along with all the anxiety and damage that the pandemic has caused there have been some unexpected benefits. The air has been cleaner, the streets quieter and people have been waking up to how much of the city is dominated by cars.

    Around my area in Roseburn/Murrayfield pedestrians have been observing the social distance rules pretty well, one stepping on to the street, so that they are not passing too closely to another coming towards them. Cyclists pull further into the carriageway to avoid the joggers. This has been possible because the roads have been so quiet. I have been able to cycle comfortably along the A8 through Corstorphine as far as the big junction at Maybury Road, something I would never tackle normally. It is a quick cycle on a flat wide road, and it is also very pleasant on the return, with Corstorphine Hill rising up on your left and a view of the castle in front.

    I used to go through Roseburn Park to Sainsbury’s as an alternative to going via the fast Westfield Road, but I’ve stopped doing that as I don’t want to use the busy shared paths and instead I go along Corstorphine Road and turn off at Balgreen. Cycling commuting traffic should not have the park, a space for scenery and leisure, as their only safe route. Coming to/from the west cyclists should go along the A8, which is direct, quick, flat and wide enough to take cycle lanes.

    I understand that the Council has called for suggestions for temporary cycle lanes. That seems highly feasible in the case of the A8. When we return to work, people are going to be anxious about using public transport and will be tempted to use their cars. The city could not take a doubling of car traffic. This emergency has had people taking out cycles from their garages and seeing the possibilities of cycling. An obvious safe route from Corstorphine and Maybury into the city centre could be quickly established with cones/barriers and that would encourage commuting by cycle.

    I see from the Policy and Safety Committee paper “Creating Safe Spaces for Walking and Cycling” that Edinburgh City Council is already planning an A8 temporary bicycle lane from Wester Coates Rd to Magdala Cres, so this would be a logical extension.
    https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s24012/Item%206.8%20-%20Creating%20Safe%20Spaces%20for%20Walking%20and%20Cycling.pdf
    Obesity and polluted air have been linked to less resistance to the virus, and having cycling as a common method of urban transport would make our air and ourselves healthier.
    The pandemic has upended our society. As we get back to something like normality it would be great if out of this grim time of anxiety our society emerged with a city that looks different and better.

    Thank you for your consideration.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. HankChief
    Member

    MCC come out in favour of temporary cycle lanes on A8

    "
    Murrayfield Community Council supports trialling anything that would avert commuters switching from public transport to cars on their return to work with the lifting of lockdown.
    However it is vital to protect public transport and pedestrians, and our support would be conditional on reassurance that any trial should be carefully evaluated against clear criteria as to what constitutes success. We would also expect consultation on the proposed layout, which need not be protracted but would help ensure that residents, businesses, bus operators and the police and emergency services understand what is proposed.

    Please keep us posted on developments"

    Meanwhile at last night's Corstorphine CC (who also support it) we have the usual LibDems https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1263111273132277760?s=19

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. gembo
    Member

    Well done @Hankchief the odds on that result would be higher than JC as leader of Labour Party

    Libdems will want to consult on a leaflet. Jeez they dont even have a leader

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. CycleAlex
    Member

    Found whilst sleuthing around on https://www.roadworksscotland.org:
    Address: ROSEBURN GARDENS, ROSEBURN, EDINBURGH
    Promoter: City of Edinburgh Council
    Expected Start Between: 28/07/2020 - 27/10/2020
    Estimated Duration: 79 Working Day(s)
    Description: Segregated cycle way. Road marking designation

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. HankChief
    Member

    "Discussions with the proposed contractor are underway. However, the Coronavirus outbreak is likely to cause various delays and it is now expected that work will commence in January 2021."

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. jdanielp
    Member

    Doesn't stop them implementing it as a 'temporary' measure now?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. stiltskin
    Member

    A large 'Cyclists dismonut sign has appeared Eastbound on Roseburn Terrace. sigh
    Also a yellow sign at the junction with Murrayfield Place along the lines of. 'Cyclists use Quiet Route 8 to join the main road' As if that is going to mean anything to most people.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    What is occurring on Roseburn Terrace?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Cyclists use Quiet Route 8

    If only we had some sort of map of the city, showing all the cycle routes. Perhaps it could be coloured, a bit like the London Underground map, and we could paint the roads to match.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. HankChief
    Member

    "NCP1 Closure at Coltbridge Viaduct

    Following the Scottish Government’s announcement on Thursday, 11th June 2020, the essential refurbishment works of Coltbridge Viaduct have restarted.

    To undertake the upcoming bridge deck works safely and to comply with the 2m physical distancing rule, we are required to temporarily close the path across the bridge and the steps to the Water of Leith for 6-weeks; from 15 June 2020 to 29 July 2020.

    Following close consultation with the Council’s Active Travel team, the Structures team had lengthy discussions with the Contractor in considering potential diversion routes. Due to the many interface points along the route and to maximise the accessibility of the adjacent paths to the public, a formal diversion route was not implemented, but advance signage is in place at multiple locations to inform all path users of the closure.

    We apologise any inconvenience this may cause but hope that residents and path users will understand the greater long-term benefit of these improvements and measures required to allow sites’ safe return to work during Covid-19 outbreak"

    Posted 3 years ago #

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