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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!)

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  1. HankChief
    Member

    Tonight's Business & Community Forum was fairly typical, with the exception of this being the 1st one that Cllr Arthur attended as Transport Convener.

    Needless to say he was using all his political skills when responding the usual range of grievances.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    “Needless to say he was using all his political skills”

    Which level of irony is that?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    Meant to post this before

    Is that a bus stop?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  4. HankChief
    Member

    Is that a bus stop?

    Nope. A 'copenhagenised' junction with the cycle route and pavement continuing E-W and space for a car to wait to cross those paths before/after being on the main road.

    Only time will tell how well it works. Won't have much motor traffic which should mean it doesn't suffer like the Leith Walk equivalent.

    The other interesting* thing is the narrowing of the E-W cycle path opposite the entrance to Balbirnie Place at the top of your photo so that it creates a waiting space for cyclists. Seems like an overengineered feature, (that will cause conflict for oncoming E-W traffic due to the narrowing) for what is likely to be only a few people turning.

    *by interesting, I mean annoying that it has got through to construction stage. #MeaCulpe

    Posted 5 months ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    “#MeaCulpe“

    Um, like the Sandy Scotland thread, it all depends on amateur volunteers…

    Posted 5 months ago #
  6. HankChief
    Member

    Some confusion in Roseburn now that the continuous pavement over the entrance to Roseburn Gardens has opened & the notorious northbound rat run closed...

    So I produced a handy guide...

    https://twitter.com/RoseburnCycle/status/1570154965737390081?t=p0GjjHBVQd0L23jgYupt1w&s=19

    May have to do another one once the Copenhaganised junctions open...

    Posted 4 months ago #
  7. boothym
    Member

    You can also see it in action with OpenStreetMap's routing:

    no right turn from the west

    no exit northbound

    allowed southbound from the east

    Posted 4 months ago #
  8. stiltskin
    Member

    Unless they have an enforcement camera positioned there I suspect otherwise law abiding citizens will drive their cars northbound through that

    Posted 4 months ago #
  9. Dave
    Member

    I'm sure this is digging up old ills, but why was it not just stopped up with access taken from the other end?

    Like this:

    https://goo.gl/maps/ZRXJHojRBVGGPtnh8

    https://goo.gl/maps/pm3pUPwtQ71axqFQ8

    https://goo.gl/maps/imu44fikhuvKXwuu9

    https://goo.gl/maps/3g1gxi7G5Wr9KbNcA

    Posted 4 months ago #
  10. HankChief
    Member

    I'm sure this is digging up old ills, but why was it not just stopped up with access taken from the other end?

    Because a representative of the trader wanted drivers to be able to loop round the block when looking for a parking space....

    Posted 4 months ago #
  11. Dave
    Member

    That's how we'll encourage people to leave the car at home for short journeys, right enough!

    The cost of that junction probably exceeds a century of turnover from the customers looping around to park. Edinburgh...

    Posted 4 months ago #
  12. boothym
    Member

    The SSC cycling in Edinburgh thread has (lots of) recent update photos: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/cycling-in-edinburgh.1699343/page-23

    Posted 4 months ago #
  13. HankChief
    Member

    City centre councillors walk around...

    https://twitter.com/FinlayMcF/status/1572238249967648768

    Posted 4 months ago #
  14. HankChief
    Member

    New 'Copenhaganised' junction opened to traffic.

    I just hope the local drivers don't pick up bad habits while the cycle path is still closed...
    https://twitter.com/RoseburnCycle/status/1572526236995563520

    Posted 4 months ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    Any bollards going in?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    Went over the junction at Little Copenhagen (murrayfield Bar) last night about 09.20pm was good, allowed me to get away from a big lorry I wasn’t enjoying that had been stuck behind me since Donaldsons. The road surface there is craturized.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  17. HankChief
    Member

    Full Council just unanimously approved a motion to pursue compensation for Roseburn traders...

    By Councillor Davidson - Support for Roseburn Businesses

    “Council:

    1) Notes that the Council Leader recently met with the owners and operators of businesses on Roseburn Terrace and heard about the negative impact that the ongoing CCWEL works had on their operations;

    2) Further notes that many businesses have seen a sharp decrease in their takings throughout the programme of works and recognises the legitimate concerns that the resumption of construction activity will damage takings even further in the run up to the vital festive period;

    3) Believes that these businesses represent the heart of the Roseburn community, and that the council should do everything within its powers to makes sure they are able to survive the disruption caused by these works;

    4) Recognises that infrastructure projects that take a significant period of time to complete often have a more acute impact on business than roadworks generally;

    5) Understands that measures undertaken to help these businesses so far have proven to be insufficient and that more needs to be done to support them;

    6) As such agrees to look into the possibility of setting up a compensation scheme for those businesses who have been adversely affected by the works to ensure they continue to operate over the coming months that the roadworks are in place.”

    SNP Addendum

    7) Agrees that the source of funding for any such scheme is made clear and that
    no other projects should lose funding as a result. If funding is being reallocated
    from existing budgets, affected workstreams and projects should be explicitly identified.
    8) Agrees that the report will establish the principles by which all potential future schemes to compensate businesses for disruption from infrastructure projects
    could operate.

    Green Addendum

    5. Notes the information provided by the council to elected members and
    businesses on support for businesses during roadworks
    6. Notes the documented benefits to businesses of improved walking, wheeling
    and cycling infrastructure through increased footfall and spend
    7. Calls for businesses along the route to continue their engagement with the
    project team to ensure all issues are picked up and the council supports
    businesses throughout project delivery

    Posted 4 months ago #
  18. neddie
    Member

    Well that opens up the floodgates for tripling the cost and delaying everything even further in the future for any other projects...

    Posted 4 months ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    @ neddie

    Potentially yes!

    MIGHT mean some scaling back of ‘quality’ which could mean quicker and more/cheaper infrastructure.

    Apparently work stopped over the summer ‘because of traders’, now they want it ‘finished by Christmas’.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  20. Stickman
    Member

    agrees to look into the possibility of setting up a compensation scheme

    Classic wording. Sir Humphrey would be proud.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  21. LaidBack
    Member

    Our street at St Peter's Place has been closed off and on for years. Imagine if private utilities had to pay out?Maybe businesses would be encouraged to use other ways of getting around? Very old school subsidy junkie thinking by them - businesses have to roll with whatever happens. Brexit has cost 100 times more plus Covid for those not lucky enough to be in bike trade.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  22. Morningsider
    Member

    I assume the businesses have offered to pay higher rates if takings increase following the completion of the scheme?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    Do they pay rates?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  24. LaidBack
    Member

    Many don't as here we have the 'Small Business Bonus' if a premises has smaller floor area. (= no rates whilst your neighbour living in converted shop pays council tax).
    Poundage is less here too than other countries.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  25. HankChief
    Member

    Hmm. The wide splay of dropped kerbs at Wester Coates Terrace is to allow bin lorries to turn without crossing the centre line of either the main or side roads as there could be queuing traffic there.

    With only 1 Eastbound lane at this point it the sweep will be mainly onto the area between the roadway and cycle path.

    The situation isn't as bad at Wester Coates Road as there are 2 Eastbound lanes at this point so bin lorry drivers can use both.

    At Magdala, Southbound movements (I.e. exiting the side road) are prohibited so the radius can be tighter - there will also be a zebra crossing for pedestrians.

    Not sure I'm totally convinced we have the best solution, but time will tell if it works...

    Posted 4 months ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    “Not sure I'm totally convinced we have the best solution“

    Sadly I think it’s a long way from “best”.

    To do this *just* for a once a week(?) bin lorry visit is pathetic.

    Expect more than once a week danger from *normal* vehicles.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    What actually happens in Copenhagen?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  28. SRD
    Moderator

    "To do this *just* for a once a week(?) bin lorry visit is pathetic."

    but isn't this always the case - roads designed for bin lorries, not people?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  29. neddie
    Member

    So they've compromised the safety of the whole junction to prioritise the flow of...

    ...bin lorries?

    There only needs to be one entrance to the Wester Coates "estate" and that could be Wester Coates Road. W C Terrace should be stopped-up to motors entirely

    Posted 4 months ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    I’m told “Most of CCWEL has sockets that allow for bollards”, but I don’t see any in photo upthread.

    Posted 4 months ago #

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