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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. cb
    Member

    "Anyone cycling south from Charlotte Square towards Albyn Place"

    Making the old downhill-so-it-must-south mistake (which gets me too I must say, especially north of George Street for some reason).

    Posted 3 months ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    He he cycle law need to check their details.?

    I pointed this out to an old punk rocker glue sniffer I was working with once. But he insisted as he had come downhill from Wester Hailes to Muirhouse he was travelling sooth.

    He was keen to pass the driving test theory part. I was less keen that this happened.

    There is a very interesting monument at the bottom to the daughter of Scotland’s first statistician. Catherine Sinclair is the daughter, sir John Sinclair the statistician .A portrait by Raeburn of the dad hangs in portrait museum where he wears an enormous sporran over some tartan trews. Now this you don’t see very often.

    Let’s hope these bollards on either side develop into an actual route. Catherine Sinclair was good at getting things done and installed drinking fountains across Edinburgh and benches to sit on. Also funded the Scott Monument. Wrote children’s books. Her sister and niece also writers. Bit religious.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  3. boothym
    Member

    Someone has posted a video on twitter - direct video link:

    https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1779600382504656896/pu/vid/avc1/1280x720/kNivphFxWX4e66UC.mp4?tag=12

    Suppose if you are following the red cycle lane from Princes Street then you might think it is but having to squeeze through perpendicular defenders/wands should be a bit of a clue that it's not a cycle track...

    Posted 3 months ago #
  4. Morningsider
    Member

    Very poor design - if you cordon off a space at the edge of a carriageway using cycle lane defenders then people will think it is a cycle lane.

    I appreciate there are perpendicular defenders, but what Edinburgh cyclist couldn't imagine them being put there for whatever reason, possibly to stop folk parking/driving down the lane. A similar set up on Morningside Road (now several years old) has always had pedestrian symbols painted on the road - and I still see plenty of people cycling up it.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  5. Dave
    Member

    That it isn't a cycle track but just deliberate dead space to help justify splurging £30m on a George St design (without cycle lanes) is absolutely peak Edinburgh

    Posted 3 months ago #
  6. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

  7. HankChief
    Member

    Response to concerns about queues on Roseburn Street / Russell Rd.

    ‘We have carried out queue length and vehicle turning counts at this junction in January 2024, and the result of this exercise have been compared against similar counts carried out in November 2018 as well as the Traffic Modelling exercise conducted in 2016 as part of the project’s initial consideration. The results of this exercise are detailed in the attached document.

    Highlights:

    Traffic modelling predicted increased queueing and journey times on Roseburn Street and Russell Road and this was reported to TEC during 2016. However, officers advised that in practice it was likely that traffic volumes on these streets would reduce as motorists chose to use other routes or modes for their journeys, resulting in more modest increases to journey time and queue lengths. Detailed designs were undertaken on this basis and have now been implemented.

    Between 2018 and 2024 traffic volumes on Roseburn Street and Russell Road have reduced considerably. Peak hour northbound traffic on Roseburn Street has reduced by 57% in the morning peak and 66% in the evening peak. Peak hour northbound traffic on Russell Road has reduced by 40% in the morning and 34% in the evening.

    Across this period maximum queue lengths on Roseburn Street have increased from 20 vehicles to 25 vehicles and average queue lengths during the busiest period (5pm-6:30pm) have increased from 10.8 vehicles to 16.8 vehicles.

    Maximum queue lengths on Russell Road have decreased from 32 vehicles to 28 vehicles, but average queue lengths during the busiest period (5pm – 6:30pm) have increased from 10 vehicles to 23.3 vehicles.

    This is in line with expectations – ie: the reduced capacity results in motorists re-routing, shifting mode, or opting not to travel, meaning there is reduced traffic volumes.
    It is possible that any alterations to increase northbound capacity at this junction may result in increased traffic volume, which could result in little to no improvement to queue lengths. As such, no alterations are proposed. The junction is considered to be performing as intended.’

    Posted 3 months ago #
  8. gembo
    Member

    How do we square reduced volumes with longer queues?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  9. HankChief
    Member

    Blocking the Roseburn Gds 'rat run' and including an 'all stop' phase in the lights to allow pedestrian crossings in all directions at Tescos

    Posted 3 months ago #
  10. neddie
    Member

    Traffic evaporation working exactly as it should...

    Build the city for the traffic you want, not the traffic that's already there

    Posted 3 months ago #
  11. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Murun Buchstansangar: Pity that the article starts with a photo captioned:

    New cycling infrastructure slices through the narrow streets of grand terraces in Edinburgh.

    The photo is of Melville Street, which the measuring tool in Google Maps indicates is about 25m wide! Which is probably how it is able to accommodate, in addition to the the cycle lane, two lanes for traffic, with parking spaces on each side, and two pretty generous pavements. This is what is used to look like before CCWEL.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    City Centre West East Link

    Hear from Henry Whaley, Chair of the Roseburn Route Support Group who will explain how the campaign for the City Centre West East Link was run.

    https://www.edinburghmuseums.org.uk/whats-on/pedal-cycle-campaigning-edinburgh

    Posted 2 months ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    That Bloomberg UK News article upthread UK has an interesting take on this success D’Estime

    If this 2 mile $29m segregated cycle route can happen in fuddy duddy old Edinburgh, it can happen ANYWHERE.

    I SALUTE HANKCHIEF and Big Rurigdh for making this happen against all odds.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  14. Rosie
    Member

    I got a taxi the other night and we were driving along Roseburn Street. The taxi driver made to turn along Roseburn Place, evidently wanting to rat run through Roseburn Gardens. I told him you can't do that. He said one day Edinburgh will be all cycle lanes. I said that would be lovely. He indicated that that would hurt taxis. I said people would still use taxis. He said taxis can't access. I said you can access, you just can't drive through it.

    Conversation then languished.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  15. cb
    Member

    Conversations like that put me off getting taxis.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    Yesterday

    Didn’t seem very shut to me!

    Ended with -

    Really not ‘world class’.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  17. Colonies_Chris
    Member

    As of this lunchtime, when I went along it, the path is closed at the Melville St / Walker St junction. There seems to be some fairly major work going on.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  18. edinburgh87
    Member

    Been using this between Haymarket and NEPN most days I’m in the office, really good although the fact that turning across it to access side streets (especially Magdala Cresc) may catch the unwary and seems an accident waiting to happen especially if heading East with turning traffic behind you. Anyway, any view here as to the “best” way to join it from Morrison St? If I follow the red “lane” across Haymarket it dumps you at the end of the station taxi rank where a red light awaits while a tram lumbers past, then dumps you just short of a pedestrian crossing having to turn right across oncoming traffic to join the segregated lane to Roseburn Path. I’m guessing the better way may be (I’m coming from Dalkeith via Tollcross: Grove St, Morrison St, Torphicen Pl, Palmerston Pl, then left onto Landsdowne Cres and Rosebery Crescent then as above?

    Posted 2 months ago #
  19. Arellcat
    Moderator

    To be honest, if I were coming into town on the A702 and wanting to get to the NEPN, I wouldn't bother with the West End. I'd peel off at Holy Corner, then left and right and down Merchiston Avenue, Yeaman Place, Dundee Street, Murieston Place and Russell Road.

    But from Tollcross, I'd still not bother with the West End, and use Ponton Street, Fountainbridge, and then Dundee Street and Murieston Place as before.

    If I were desperate to use CCWEL, then I'd probably turn left at the West End over the shared bit of footway, then go down Shandwick Place and right at Stafford Street to reach Melville Street.

    Canning Street could sure use a cycle contraflow, though.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    #CCWEL delays Here's the worst example:

    literally 2-year delay whilst @scotgov ponders over a few objections (here largely dismissed) .. and that doesn't count the year or so already spent in the RSO objections process leading up to this

    https://x.com/spokeslothian/status/1792833815943274535

    Posted 2 months ago #
  21. edinburgh87
    Member

    @arrelcat - interesting one, I’ll try that - it would be great to cut out Haymarket. Cheers!

    Posted 2 months ago #
  22. chrisfl
    Member

    I would probably try and get off Morningsikde Road as early as possible, Morningside Park or Morningside Place, then Tipperlin Road, South Etterick ROad, Spylaw Road, Gillisland Road, Harrison Road, (it's a bit of a zig zag, but there are a few options...)

    Ardmillan, Murieston Place, Russell Road!

    Posted 2 months ago #
  23. the canuck
    Member

    He said one day Edinburgh will be all cycle lanes. I said that would be lovely. He indicated that that would hurt taxis. I said people would still use taxis. He said taxis can't access. I said you can access, you just can't drive through it.

    I never understand this anti-easy-cycling logic. People in their own cars don't need taxis. People walking/cycling/bussing might, for various reasons. The harder it is for private cars, the more potential customers.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  24. neddie
    Member

    And Waze, Google, et al, put paid to any advantage taxis had by making use of the back streets as rat-runs

    Posted 1 month ago #
  25. SRD
    Moderator

    I would also follow Chrisfl's route.

    Harrison Rd to Russell rd is basically a straight shot, with fairly straightforward junctions. of course will be off road route soon.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    “of course will be off road route soon”

    See latest

    Posted 1 month ago #
  27. Rosie
    Member

    I'm putting this on CCWEL thread as well as the Festival thread. It's free but you do have to book tickets.

    PEDAL ON: CYCLING CAMPAIGNING IN EDINBURGH
    Museum of Edinburgh
    Saturday 8 June 2pm

    There are many groups in Edinburgh that campaign to make our city a safe place for cycling. At this event we will hear about the activities that some of these groups are running and how to get involved. Presentations will include the following:

    Hop on The Bike Bus

    When a city lacks safe cycling infrastructure there is no better way to get your kids to school than by taking part in a bike bus. Bike bus champion, Jarlath Flynn talks about how you can go about setting up a bike bus for your school and how it can help nurture healthier, happier more resilient kids and adults.

    City Centre West East Link

    Hear from Henry Whaley, Chair of the Roseburn Route Support Group who will explain how the campaign for the City Centre West East Link was run.

    https://www.edinburghmuseums.org.uk/whats-on/pedal-cycle-campaigning-edinburgh

    Posted 1 month ago #
  28. bakky
    Member

    Attended said ‘Pedal On’ talks today at the museum of Edinburgh; Jarlath spoke well about the bike buses with real enthusiasm, and @hankchief gave a really motivating and insightful talk on campaigning for CCWEL replete with CCE shoutout / screenshot. Particularly as someone new to bikey activism / rabble-rousing, greatly inspired by these and also Brendan Hill’s edfoc talk on Wednesday and also great to hear about the role this community have played as sounding board and gathering place.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    24 hours later!

    But why?

    And who pays?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #

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