Madder than a box of frogs!
Or should we say, “madder than an Edinburger bike lane”?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
(5591 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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I think they were resurfacing the road anyway and have decided to make some minor improvements to the cycleway at the same time - they mention drainage on the information page as well.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks
Still seems odd and inadequately coordinated.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The workie using the stencil also had Khorsakov shakes?
Posted 1 year ago # -
This is part of work to rectify defects by the contractor. The red surfacing opposite the Haymarket Yards junction had some bad grooves in it which is presumably why it was relaid.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Stantec seem to be doing a bike count survey on CCWEL at Donaldsons, and at Haymarket, and at the Dalry colonies
Posted 11 months ago # -
Dunno if this has been shared already, but in this 'Active Towns' YouTube video Emilia Hannah from Sustrans gives a tour of some Edinburgh infrastructure including the CCWEL.
http://www.naden.de/blog/bbvideo-bbpress-video-plugin -->
[+] Embed the video | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9Jiw6IeBes" target="_blank">Video Download Get the Video Plugins Some interesting "this is a bit hairy", "this is a bit grim", and "how do we get over there" moments.
This is part 2 of 4. In episode 4 we get to see Leith Walk which Emilia seems to be genuinely proud about. They get a mostly clear run it has to be said.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Is the pavement on the East side of Gibson Tce shared-use?
Posted 10 months ago # -
My morning commute. I recognise those dugs. It all looks lovely..
Though today I took the towpath they other way to Falkirk all festooned with leaves The three mile town swans BOSSING it,
Also NCN75 or NCNR75 - i dont care butSustrans ? She does mention Route later on
Also Union Canalgooes to Falkirk - all paved, there is then a connection to Forth andnClyde Canal [with some detours last year that might be fixed now]. Surface good.
Posted 10 months ago # -
A mere nine months after officially being opened, the cycleway through Melville Crescent is complete. It does look good, although I’d suggest it’s a questionable use of several £m for AT.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Good news, there wasa. Fortnight when it was all working then they spent a new cache of cash closing it for 9 months but now can be off road again til George Streeet. Thought the cycle lane at Charlotte Sq is only on the West side and the opposite side has been reclaimed by parking which i disagree with but. Will try the west side to see if it lets me across at the lights instead of pushing into the traffic.
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
@balfourbeatty @Edinburgh_CC The 6 months project at Melville Street/Walker Street has totally flooded as Balfour Beaty blocked all the drains with works rubble and didn’t clear them. Basement flats now being threatened by flood water. Please come as an emergency!
“
Posted 8 months ago # -
FFS
Posted 8 months ago # -
Predictably, Living Streets Edinburgh are using this as an opportunity to complain about the existence of the cycleway.
https://x.com/LivingStreetsEd/status/1874751798323630303
How do I make that a link? The url tag isn't doing it.
ADMIN EDIT
Normal links only need pasting in, not extra code.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Interesting to see SA getting the ‘blame’.
Though I’m sure he took the credit…
“
Agree. This Melville Street work wasn't even needed, it wasn't broke and it didn't need fixing. It was some kind of city vanity project, preening the ego of the former CEC T&E Convenor, Scott Arthur. Drainage...the irony eh !
“
Posted 8 months ago # -
Melville Street has been massively over-engineered to allow continued through-traffic. It could have been "fixed" with a simple, low-cost filter at the Queensferry St end, to prevent rat-running, and the removal of the median parking.
That would have also simplified the Queensferry St junction, allowing better "flow" for buses!
As it is, Chester St and Drumsheugh Gardens still need a filter
Posted 8 months ago # -
@neddie
And, as was repeatedly said during the design phase, a proper cycle network would have taken the direct route to the city centre rather than along back streets and down alleyways to go via Melville Street.
And, as with Leith Walk, Spokes/cyclists are getting the blame despite pointing out all these issues from day one. Run the council/get whatever they want etc etc etc.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Exactly, @stickman
but... but... "we have to have 2 filter lanes on Clifton Tce / Atholl Pl because FLOW!", and because we haven't removed the massive amount of through-traffic going along Queen St or Lothian Rd.
1 of those filter lanes could easily be a bidirectional* segregated cyclelane
*although I don't approve of bidirectional lanes, except in exceptional circumstances, however this is one case where it could be
Posted 8 months ago # -
Elsewhere
“
The 77-week project to create cycleways and pedestrian spaces has now passed the halfway stage.
…
“We will continue to focus on the flow of traffic through Arbroath using one-way systems and local diversions, over temporary traffic lights.”
A Place for Everyone is being jointly funded by Sustrans and Angus Council.
“
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
Rosebery Cres @scottishwater.bsky.social close Jan 20->
Zero mention #CCWEL of bikes despite official #roadworks guidance
We've asked @edinburghcouncil.bsky.social to act
“
Posted 7 months ago # -
Post-implementation monitoring report going to the Transport Committee
Posted 7 months ago # -
Just the 335 pages then...
Posted 7 months ago # -
Might be all you need to read…
“
2. Executive Summary
2.1 Interim post-construction monitoring for the City Centre West to East Cycle Link and Street Improvements (CCWEL) project has been undertaken six months after its completion. Compared to pre-implementation monitoring undertaken in 2020 and 2021, there is evidence that the street improvements have resulted in increased numbers of people cycling, increased pedestrian satisfaction with the local environment, improved perceptions of safety among pedestrians and cyclists, positive impacts for local businesses through increased footfall and a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions associated with travel due to mode shift for some journeys from car/van to bike.
2.2 Some challenges and residual issues have been identified, around potential impacts on vulnerable road users and traffic changes in certain areas.
“
Posted 7 months ago # -
Monitoring report shows some positive results:
Posted 4 days ago # -
“
Executive Summary
12 Month Post-implementation monitoring for the City Centre West to East Cycle Link and Street Improvements (CCWEL) project has been undertaken. Compared to pre-implementation monitoring undertaken in 2020 and 2021, there is evidence that the positive results seen in the interim monitoring results have been sustained or further increased.
The results provide evidence of increased numbers of people cycling, increased pedestrian satisfaction with the local environment, improved perceptions of safety among pedestrians and cyclists, positive impacts for local businesses through increased retail spend and a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions associated with travel.
Lessons Learned from each stage of the project have been considered by Officers, with the aim of delivering active travel projects more efficiently and ensuring that project budgets are as accurate as possible at all stages of delivery. Many of the outcomes of this process have already been adopted across other projects.
“
(Official distillation of 8 pages)
Posted 4 days ago # -
Interesting to compare with the water-depleting, rainforest-destroying, climate-busting nuclear-fusion-needing AI version of the summary:
"
The CCWEL monitoring shows cycling has risen since its completion in March 2024, especially during weekends and off-peak hours, pointing to broader uptake of active travel. Pedestrians reported safer, more attractive streets with better accessibility, while cyclists noted less conflict and greater convenience. Persistent concerns remain over driver behavior, road quality, and limited diversity among users, with middle-aged men still the dominant cycling group.Economic analysis revealed mixed views among traders but overall positive outcomes. While some highlighted issues with parking and deliveries, support among businesses grew and consumer spending rose compared to control sites. Shopper surveys confirmed steady footfall, particularly in cafés and local stores, while vacant premises remained stable or declined, countering fears of economic harm.
The lessons learned stress the challenges of delivering large infrastructure in a complex city setting. Delays from utility clashes and unexpected issues like asbestos raised costs and caused disruption. Recommended changes include aligning cycleways with carriageways to cut construction time, phasing delivery to reduce risks, and refining consultation. The project cost just under £23m, mostly funded by Transport Scotland, and its insights are already shaping future active-travel schemes.
"Posted 4 days ago # -
Does that "AI" version reflect the report? Or is it just slop?
The "limited diversity" claim doesn't seem plausible to me, as well as others
Posted 4 days ago # -
I think probably all elements can be found within the report. Eg re the cycling survey (physical rather than self-selecting)
'At the Baseline, nearly two-thirds of respondents were male (65%, 536), and a third were female (34%, 279),
with most respondents aged between 35 and 64.' (most here being 70-75%, from figure 11 in the report)For me, the AI version is better than the blandest-of-bland CEC executive summary. And I'm not an AI fan by any stretch.
Posted 4 days ago # -
I am now going to have to waste my life reading the whole report and summarising it myself, just to work out whether what the "AI" summary produced is accurate, or whether it is hallucinating confident lies of what the prompter wants to hear?
Honestly, just stop using LLMs / ChatGPT - it's junk, and a waste of everyone's time
Posted 4 days ago # -
That was kind of my point, neddie. It is a skill to write well, and a skill to write a good report: succinctly, accurately, impartially (perhaps), but also no shorter than it need be. It is a further skill to be able to condense that writing, indeed a skill to be able to take that report and write an abstract, a précis or an executive summary, and do so in a way that addresses the intended audience, carefully acknowledges the contention that such a report might encounter, and to carefully pick the topics and themes to be summarised, without resorting to gigawatts of power and magical technology. I can do mental arithmetic and I can do long division and square roots on paper, but it's sure easier to use a calculator. But at least I have some idea of the order of magnitude of the answer I expect it to give. I could be trying to perform a Taylor Expansion to evaluate e^x, and have no real idea, other than what it would converge to, if my calculator was giving me the right answers.
FWIW, I fed ChatGPT the report that Stickman linked to, and used a structured query that didn't reference any particular style other than number of paragraphs and length, and that it should not merely repeat the original Executive Summary. In fact it was a refinement of my first query that didn't specify length; I asked it to reduce its word count by one-third to better match the original.
It reminded me though of the quote from of a lecturer whose students were using GPT et al to write things. It was along the lines of "If you can't be bothered to write something yourself, I can't be bothered to read it." Without having read the original report, of course how could I know if GPT-spiel was any good? My intention was only to see if its output bore much relation to the Executive Summary that (I presume) someone in CEC spent a couple of hours carefully crafting.
Posted 4 days ago #
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