"Concerned local resident" has acquired that flavour due to its application in place of any pejorative term. Stickybeak?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
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Posted 8 years ago #
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Kudos to any of you who have ventured on to the Edinburgh New's comments section. I couldn't face it, but was speaking to someone about the stooshie and he remembered the quote from the Murrayfield Community Council about how Roseburn Terrace would be much more pleasant to shop in if there was more space for pedestrians and less traffic.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Here's a summary of useful links about the Roseburn-Leith path
Action!
The Council consultation - if you do one thing - fill in this!
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/roseburntoleithThe consultation closes on Monday (1st Feb)
There’s also a petition in support of the cycle path...
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/support-roseburn-west-coates-protected-cycle-routeUnfortunately the two of the local councillors (Jeremy Balfour, Con and Frank Ross, SNP) are opposed to the plan. The LibDem (Paul Edie) is wavering. If you live locally, you can write to them here: https://www.writetothem.com/
Info
http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/01/city-centre-east-west-route/#more-9713
http://www.chrispaton.co.uk/documents/TheimportanceoftheproposedRoseburntoHaymarketcycleway.pdf
https://hankchiefblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/01/bringing-protected-cyclelanes-to-west-edin/
Posted 8 years ago # -
Does anyone have a handle on where the 17 transport committee members stand on the scale of, Strong support, Leaning to support, Neutral, Leaning to oppose, Strong oppose?
I'm drafting letters/emails, but I want to individualise them.
So far I'm assuming Cllr Hinds and the two Green Cllrs strongly support. Of the 3 local cllrs, the SNP and Conservative strongly oppose, and the Lib Dem leans to opposition, but they're not on the committee.
Where do their group colleagues on the committee stand, and where do Cllr Hinds group colleagues stand? I want to tailor the emails as far as possible to nudge them or at least get them thinking straight about the issues.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posters up in a lot of the shops today, but not all of them.
There is a QR code on the poster - if anyone gets a chance could they scan it and see where it leads to?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posters noticed this morning, all a bit Ian Paisley in their wording, "ROSEBURN SAYS NO TO CYCLETRACKS". "NO!" "ROSEBURN FIGHTS BACK!"
I thought about having a whip round to let one of the empty shop units and put up a big "ROSEBURN SAYS YES TO POLLUTION" or "ROSEBURN <3 CONGESTION", which seems to be the logical projection of their argument.
I did notice that the left-hand "loading" bay heading out of town has been unusually clear of vehicles this week, but it's usually white vans popping in to the Scotmid for fags/ginger in the morning.
Posted 8 years ago # -
QR code probably to http://www.BonnetsNotApiaries.com. I'll pop up for a peep at lunchtime.
I used to like Victor Hugo in Marchmont but have been avoiding it since I was sitting outside it and witnessed an owner-looking person illegally park a huge SUV thing with a relevant-sounding vanity plate (HU60 VCT or whatever) outside then come out and intimidate the frail wee traffic warden who had wandered past and started dutifully produced a parking ticket.
Having speaked at and listened to some of the cycling team people at the various drops-in and consultations I believe they're sensible enough to spot an objection based on ludicrousness rather than facts or logic, but what is the process between the consultation and approval? Is something this big likely to get Leith Walked and come back in a revised form for re-consultation, or just be tweaked according to (reasonable) consultation feedback before being wafted at the transport committee?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I did notice that the left-hand "loading" bay heading out of town has been unusually clear of vehicles this week"
Presume you mean at times when it's illegal to load anything?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Is something this big likely to get Leith Walked and come back in a revised form for re-consultation"
I'd say that is highly likely. However there is the opportunity/deadline of Scot gov's extra funding pot/competition for "exemplar" active travel projects: I imagine CEC will be wanting to apply to that for an injection of funds to get the scheme built.
At least the trams already pass this route, so no need to wait on decisions there...
What I think all this stramash shows is that active travel campaigners have a huge mountain to climb in this country if they want any half decent infrastructure built. The hostility from others is palpable, despite the "some of my best friends are cyclists/I'm a keen cyclist myself" disarming tactics from the opposition.*
If there is such fierce resistance in a city like Edinburgh where there are relatively speaking quite a lot of cyclists, imagine what it's like in places like Aberdeen for example.
* - If indeed some of the opposition are cyclists, their opposition I believe stems from cognitive dissonance produced by internalised oppression: when you've been bullied by others for decades, you start not just going along with what the bullies want, but actually believing what the bullies say in order to "fit in". It's a psychological coping mechanism.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Does anyone have a steer on which way the Council transport committee members may lean?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ih: from responses I've had:
Lesley Hinds/Andrew Burns supportive.
Karen Keil responded positively to my email of support, so I would (tentatively) say she is in favour. She picked up on the benefits for everyone in the west of Edinburgh so perhaps focus on impact on congestion/pollution/access?
Gavin Barrie was concerned about (1) impact on disabled access to Haymarket and (2) effect of having to move Haymarket Terrace taxi rank again after long discussions with shops/taxi trade to get it moved to its current position. He didn't seem opposed to the scheme as a whole, but may want so many design compromises as to make it useless.
Nick Cook is likely to be opposed. He'll be influenced by his Conservative colleagues' views on the business impact. However, he is strongly in favour of a city wide bike hire scheme, so linking this plan to that may make him think twice?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ih Nick Cook is the Conservative councillor in my ward (Liberton/Gilmerton). I don't know a lot about him and don't think I've met him in person, only email and Twitter about various local issues and he seems generally a nice person.
He stated a few times that he supports active travel but I'm not really aware of concrete activities around here. He seems to support the school car ban, although he didn't say what could be done about Liberton Primary (it's on Gilmerton Rd which can't easily be closed).
He has been in the news against the "blanket" 20mph in the kind of "OK for residential areas but not where people have to drive" and "we don't have the money" way.
My guess is that he would probably be broadly in favour of building cycle paths in general, but not if there is local opposition, and might object to the cost. Also he's very young and even assuming he supported the Roseburn section, I don't know if he would be in a position to oppose Balfour who seems to be very vocal against it.
I once went to a community council meetings in Gilmerton (or a neighbourhood partnership or whatever, I don't really understand the difference), there weren't any really controversial issues on the table but I generally felt uncomfortable. It was in a small room, I was the only member of the public (it hadn't been advertised and it took me about a month of emailing officers to find out about it), and the general attitude was very conservative (small c), I felt as if I had intruded into a party of good old friends and I basically tried to hide in the corner of the table and become invisible.
At one point a council member gave spontaneous a rant about "lycra louts" which was rather unexpected because no item on the agenda had anything to do with cycling, and others nodded approvingly (after the meeting I walked around the block a few times before going to my bike so that nobody would notice I'm one of THEM). It wasn't too bad in total (not like what people report from Murrayfield) but didn't really encourage me to come again. The group represented only a certain fraction of the Liberton/Gilmerton population, but I wonder if councillors like Nick Cook (who, I believe, attends regularly) are very much influenced by such groups.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well, I've been thinking that all this uproar and pushback really proves this scheme will make a difference. Unfortunately that's going to be the paradox, at least in these early days of a better cycling nation - the better the scheme, the louder the howls of protest. If nobody was saying boo, then that would be a pretty good indication that the scheme was useless. Or that we were living in the Netherlands.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"If nobody was saying boo, then that would be a pretty good indication that the scheme was useless. Or that we were living in the Netherlands."
Or possibly that they (the shopkeeps of doom) knew what the consultation would contain as they had accepted the council's invitation and bothered to attend the pre-consultation stakeholder workshops, providing their insights and opinions at that stage?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cafe Jacob on Haymarket Terrace has a poster in their window.
I wonder what the guy who delivers to them on a cargo bike thinks about this?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I wonder what the guy who delivers to them on a cargo bike thinks about this?"
He's not allowed to have an opinion because he's one of THEM (see upthread).
Posted 8 years ago # -
I wonder, is it possible and realistic to set up a camera and film Roseburn Terrace for a day? The footage could be analysed for various questions like:
- traffic count (how many vehicles and bicycles pass through)?
- how much time are some of the lanes blocked by loading/parked vehicles?
- how full are the loading bays typically (how many hours are all/50% spaces used)?
- how long do vehicles stay/park (a few cars parking all day, or many different ones stopping for the shops)?
I doubt it will influence the shopkeepers, but having such data might be useful for the councillors.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Ok, from the horse's mouth (the Project Officer in the Council), the loading/parking situation on Roseburn Terrace is as follows:
Currently restrictions are as follows;
Southside
· Parking Bay - 12m off peak parking (9:30am-4pm, 30mins limit, No return within in 45mins, Blue Badges all day with no limits.
· Loading Bay – 46m, Off peak loading (Mon – Fri 9:30am-4pm, Sat 9:30-1pm) This includes Blue badge holders all day and Parking (Sat 1:30-6:30pm)
Northside
· Loading Bays – 43m, Off peak loading (Mon – Fri 9:30am-4pm, Sat 9:30-1pm) This includes Blue badge holders all day and Parking (Sat 1:30-6:30pm)
Single Red
· No Stopping Mon –Fri 07:30am – 6.30pm & Sat 8:30am – 6:30pm
Double Red
· No Stopping
So there is a 12 metre parking bay on the South side. That's the only parking that's being removed. Apparently the shop-keepers' opinions of their own business and their customers is so low that they believe they'll go bust if the customers that do drive have to park round the corner.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Northside
· Loading Bays – 43m, Off peak loading (Mon – Fri 9:30am-4pm, Sat 9:30-1pm) This includes Blue badge holders all day and Parking (Sat 1:30-6:30pm)
In that case, the sign on the North side is incorrect, as it (appears) to allow loading at any time.
Roseburn Tce loading North side by Ed, on Flickr
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Stephan Matthiesen Yep, though it would probably best be arranged through PMs to avoid tipping-off any concerned local citizens.
Practically, a modern DSLR could probably manage the best part of a day in timelapse mode. Each of my bike cameras can only last for a few hours, but one can be recharged whilst in operation from a portable battery pack. The main problem is finding a suitable filming-location where a person (or rotating shift of people) could loiter to prevent camera-theft, seeing as the trees' lack of leaves at this time of year reduces the cover available.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The council has portable cameras on poles.
Might be better if they could be persuaded to use them here.
'Obviously' this would lead to less illegal stopping - but no-one can really argue than any illegal activity should be allowed for...
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chdot Interesting point. Spontaneously I would have replied that for unbiased data collection the camera should not actually change the observed behaviour, whether legal or not, but I'm really not sure what's best. In practice it might not make much difference.
@wingpig Good question. If you hang around with a camera for a day, I'm sure lots of people will come along to investigate. I was hoping there is a place where you can hide a small camera for a day with little risk of being stolen.
I send you a PM..
Posted 8 years ago # -
The QR code on the posters takes you to the "anti" petition.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Maybe the way to placate the shop owners is to build them a little mini car park, underneath the advertising hoardings?
Posted 8 years ago # -
The anti petition has almost 300 online signatures now. They have been very effective at mobilising people offline, not sure if the support has broken out of the social media bubble yet.
Are there any real-life community groups in the area that are supportive? To casual observers it does look a bit like "outside commuters vs local residents".
Posted 8 years ago # -
Peter Gregson is a member of Friends of Roseburn Park.
There are members of the local community who are supportive, but I can't think of any groups that are.Posted 8 years ago # -
If the businesses of Roseburn really believe they're serving the local community they should have no problem hosting both petitions in a completely unbiased manner.
*cough*
Maybe bike shops along or near the route would be interested?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hope you all went somewhere for a cup of tea...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Interestingly, I think some of the shops that had petitions earlier today didn't have them when I walked past this evening. Specifically Jacob on Haymarket Terrace. Perhaps customers have had a word?
I was also struck that one of the shops on Haymarket Terrace with a "Save Our Shops" sign has two units beside it that have been empty for years. Perhaps focussing on parking isn't going to save the remaining shops?
Posted 8 years ago #
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