"As a cyclist myself, I personally volunteer to break my own collarbone after falling on slippery tramlines. I'm willing to do that if it means the salvation of local businesses through the preserving of essential services such as illegal parking while nipping out for a quick bacon roll and takeaway latté. If that's what it takes to keep this city's vibrant economy moving, then all cyclists should sacrifice themselves on the tram lines for the common good. As a cyclist myself, I fail to see how anyone could possibly disagree with such a common sense approach to supporting hard working local entrepreneurs and wealth creators."
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
(5559 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Is "As a cyclist myself" the new "I'm not racist but" ?
I'm also baffled by the number of people (usually in comments sections) using low cycling numbers as an argument against better infrastructure.
Posted 8 years ago # -
It's the new "some of my best friends are black/gay/women/disabled (or possibly all four), but..."
Posted 8 years ago # -
"As a cyclist myself, I will certainly be digging my old rusty bike-shaped object from the back of my garage in order to demonstrate how supportive I am of *other* people using rubbish paths while I drive to the shops."
Posted 8 years ago # -
Was quite surprised at the number of shops with posters in their windows. I would have been spending money in at least two of those shops but went into co-op instead.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I also couldn't help feeling the slogan was dripping with unintended entitlement. "Save our shops. Save our community". Cos it's their community, not the people who actually live there and deal with the traffic on a daily basis. They should just suck it up and hand over their money.
I know full well it's a "we're all in this together" kind of thing, but I can't now unread my initial reading.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I'm also baffled by the number of people (usually in comments sections) using low cycling numbers as an argument against better infrastructure."
It's because they imagine that there is (small) number of people who want to ride bikes and (probably) already do.
Similarly some people imagine that if 'they' don't do something - create infrastructure, enforce parking, (perhaps even bailing out the banks and fixing oil prices), etc. everything will be the same as it always was (perhaps before the internet?).
Even if 'we' are wrong about the extra benefits that a cycle lane might bring to the shops AND about the notion that any of their car-borne customers break the law, things change.
Realistically there are bigger threats to the Roseburn traders than the possibility of a cycle path outside some of their shops. It remains to be seen whether all the publicity they are getting will result in extra customers going out of solidarity...
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I'm also baffled by the number of people (usually in comments sections) using low cycling numbers as an argument against better infrastructure."
Can we also use that argument at Roseburn: not many people are using your shops, so why should we protect them?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Get off your bike and visit these shops. Then you might begin to wonder how the 7,000 citizens who use them will feel should they disappear. Then you need to come to the City Chambers next Wednesday, at 3pm, with your placard espousing the track, and talk to some of them face-to-face. I am sure when they meet you in person they wil be overcome by the logic of your case. Let's abandon cyberwar and try some of the real thing? Or are you too lily-livered to show face, with your chums, heyheyhey, Dave de Feu, Chris Paton, Stephan Matthiesen, Gordon Drummond, Ian Maxwell and Abbie Gills. Please cyclists, come out of the shadows and show face. We welcome debate in person"
Comment from our good friend under his own letter:
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/letters/haymarket-cycle-track-plan-will-ruin-businesses-1-4015647Not sure why he mentions me by name (many others have been much more active), and if he realises that we actually have spoken in person....
Posted 8 years ago # -
'Things change'. Exactly.
Not least the 100 people who move to Edinburgh every week + the many many more moving to West Lothian & Fife who regularly travel through West Edinburgh.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"It remains to be seen whether all the publicity they are getting will result in extra customers going out of solidarity..."
Or whether the inverse is true: potential and existing customers will boycott their businesses instead taking their custom to traders who do not wear their prejudices on their sleeves?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Really. I think Mr. KNS has crossed over from someone who used to do worthwhile activities with young people and disadvantaged members of the community, to someone who is convinced of the righteousness of their cause, regardless of evidence.
It's a bit sad. I used to know this guy a number of years ago, and if I think back there was always this edge to him, a very determined missionary zeal, which I saw a few times. It was understandable, he had a lot of struggles trying to get funding, political backing, etc. for various projects against the odds.
Alas I think this long experience, plus perhaps shoddy treatment in the more recent "whistleblower" controversy, has led to some kind of siege mentality. So much so he's whipping up similar in business owners and local residents who, prior to his intervention, probably couldn't have given two hoots about cycle tracks. I mean honestly: demo at the City Chambers? Totally out of proportion to what is still a consultation.
The reality is these motorists and traders are not the victims here. The poor pedestrians, and those cyclists who brave the A8, are the ones disadvantaged by the status quo.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Not sure why he mentions me by name"
You have commented on EEN stories under your own name, and here too. I presume he is avidly Googleplexing any stories about the Roseburn situation, including this thread.
It's an intimidation tactic to name you publicly, pretty nasty actually. That and the macho "come on then, let's see your face" are a bit out of order if you ask me. He must be really angry, maybe a psychiatrist could help him?
Posted 8 years ago # -
'The reality is these motorists and traders are not the victims here. The poor pedestrians, and those cyclists who brave the A8, are the ones disadvantaged by the status quo.'
Well said Crowriver.
Some those victims are the 30+ people that die prematurely from air pollution in West Edinburgh this year and every year.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I see on his Facebook page a picture from the EEN "Letters to the Editor" where they published some online comments. Did anyone see it (his copy is unreadable)?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chdot - true. The Roseburn Action Plan pointed out that it's driving to the supermarkets that's damaged shopping centres like Roseburn.
@crowriver I'm totally against boycotting businesses. Not just because I live here & want to continue to use them but because the concerns are genuine. We can't guarantee that this will ultimately do the area good. & even if it does the area good, it may hurt individual businesses. There are competing interests here. Our side is for the ultimate good of the city but ultimate goods usually have immediate pain for someone.
Agree that mentioning people by name is out of order. DDF, okay, he's a Spokesspokesman but not the rest.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@crowriver Oh, I see where he got my name from, what I meant was that I have hardly have done enough to deserve being mentioned, when a lot of you guys have really been active for years and have achieved so much. It just lacks perspective.
The comment is just bullying tactics, and not even competetent bullying. I've survived more effective bullying than that.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Rosie I'm also not in favour of boycotting small businesses, but I just wouldn't feel comfortable in those cafes any more after what has been said and written by their owners and with their owners' support.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'm not calling for a formal boycott. However it's entirely understandable if some individuals would prefer not to give their business to retailers who so openly campaign against the interests of a certain proportion of their customer base, to the extent of lying, aggressive posturing, stereotyping and displaying some rather unpleasant prejudices.
Oh, while folk's names are being bandied about by the opponents to the scheme, they also have posted in the EEN comments the names of the businesses that signed that letter published above the comments. I've added it here just in case any local folk might be offended by these businesses' prioritising of their own narrow interests above those of the wider community.
Art et Facts, Chores @ Work, Clancy's Solicitors & Estate Agents, Cucina, David Drummond Sewing Machines, Delta Takeaway, De-Luxe Cards & Dry-Cleaning, Designer Cake Boutique, Eat'n'Joy, Fine Fellas Hairdressing, Fleurs de fleur, Ikina Hair Studio, Jacob's Bakery, JRM Coachworks, House of Hound, Lezzetli Bar, Miso Sushi, Murrayfield Bar, PC Doctor & Moving Pictures, Premier Connections Recruitment, Right Medicine Pharmacy, Roseburn Café, Roseburn Shoe Repairs, Savoir Faire Dressmaking, Simon Scotts Antiques, Thallon Soulis Hairdressing, The Dunstane Hotel, The Kilt Hire Company, The Original Raj Hotel, Roseburn Turkish Barbers, Vigo Delicatessen, Wight's Chiropracters, Zea Café and Zest Beauty Spa.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Let's abandon cyberwar and try some of the real thing? Or are you too lily-livered to show face, with your chums
i got excited for a minute there.. imagine the vicarious frisson.. its all kicking off down the city chambers.. the righteous tradesmen of Roseburn going toe to toe with the museli knitting do-gooders..
LOL
Posted 8 years ago # -
Rosie hit the nail on the head!
The argument should be for the cycleway and not against the shops - boycotting them will only lead to further entrenchment and isolation!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@crowriver interesting list, thanks. I haven't the energy to Google them all to find exactly where they trade but I recognise many from my visits to Roseburn. What's noticeable is how few - less than one handful - of them would have any legitimate argument that customers need space for loading (remember, loading is defined as heavy goods that you're delivering or picking up).
There is plenty of loading space allocated for this, and before anyone says what about deliveries, as has been said on this thread, that is the responsibility of the deliverer to sort out, not the shopkeeper.
It's all about maintaining space for illegal parking.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Won't the traders all be working at 3pm on Wednesday? If their businesses are all so close to the edge that a cycle track could bankrupt them then a few hours off seems a positively kamikazee move.
Also, the City Chambers may have shut up shop by then - as there is no parking available outside.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I spent a few minutes looking on Streetview to see the businesses along Roseburn/Haymarket.
At a rough count, I would say that this letter has only been signed by about half of them. That's not to say that others support the scheme, just that they haven't put their name to it.
Also it's noticeable just how many parking restrictions are already in place along this route. In particular Streetview shows that the shops at Haymarket just have a long rank of taxis outside.
I also passed along Roseburn Terrace this afternoon. A lot of the shops that have signed were actually closed: some of the hairdressers and some of the cafes. So they aren't even open when parking is allowed.
Agree with the the above comments: we should be backing the cycle plans, not opposing the shops.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"It's all about maintaining space for illegal parking."
Exactly. I think we need to point this out to local councillors during correspondence...
Posted 8 years ago # -
"So they aren't even open when parking is allowed."
Maybe they were all at the "mass demo" outside the City Chambers? Or maybe part of the reason their businesses are struggling is because they're not open Saturday afternoons?
Posted 8 years ago # -
What happened to Henderson Wines on that stretch of road? I always had a soft spot for them as when they were located on Henderson row I purchased 1.5litres of Bulgarian red wine five minutes after closing time from them on my first date with my better half in December 1993.
I was also in the roseburn bar one Friday in 1984 as had come through to help decorate a flat round the corner. Amazingly for someone from the west it did not shut at 11pm or midnight but stayed open to an unbelievable 01.00a.m. We went back the next night but left it late and it was shut as Saturday closing happened before the sabbath in those days.
Not sure why the shops after roseburn would wish to sign anything as they do not appear to be affected at all? Shame if pete's mis directions are that easily believed? Shame that Pete who used to be scrupulous when I knew him should be stooping to tactics I am sure he would have deplored in his former life.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@gembo Some may have signed in solidarity with the others.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@rosie:
In the 'mini-Holland' scheme in London some businesses said they felt pressured into opposing the plans.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@gembo, I know, I can scarcely believe it's the same person. Something bad must have happened to him, is my theory. Something which he blames the council for.
Posted 8 years ago #
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