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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!)

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  1. Dave
    Member

    It's incredible that people are out there with straight faces and a "no to the cycle track - no to pollution" sign.

    We already know that to address the existing pollution we need to drastically reduce the number of cars travelling in from the west end. The only imaginable way this could happen is with a significant modal shift towards bikes, as we've seen in London where they're now expecting the number of cyclists to exceed the number of drivers.

    The cycle track is the only viable way of achieving modal shift, so an essential element of stopping pollution.

    Laughable, but in a "my fellow citizens depress me" way.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    Journalists are getting younger!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/alistairkgrant/photo

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. HankChief
    Member

    Anyone spot if Cllr Ross was in attendence?

    I can see Cllr Balfour in the background.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Actually, the "NO TO CYCLE TRACKS: No to congestion: (No to pollution)" guy is totally worth cropping from that photo and sending along with any correspondence to members of the transport committee. Along the lines of;

    "Dear Councillor,

    Even those opposed to these plans appear to recognise the need for them".

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    "

    GM Cycling Campaign (@GMcycling)
    03/02/2016, 12:51
    The @OfficialTfGM trial bus-stop bypass has been thoroughly assessed with input from @livingstreets. The plan is to build more. @kim_harding

    "

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. Rosie
    Member

    @chdot

    Yeah, we're hardly at the cutting edge...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. acsimpson
    Member

    Looks like Mr "No to pollution" couldn't quite spell cycle first time either and had to add the second c as an after thought.

    Perhaps they want to pedestrianise the area. That would achieve their aim of removing congestion and pollution.

    Anyone recognise the cyclist? Judging by his bike and clothing he isn't the type to worry about following the back route and would prefer to be keeping up with the traffic than worrying about those around him.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I cropped Mr "NO TO CYCLE TRACKS: No to congestion: (No to pollution)" out of the Chipwrapper photo and tweeted it. It's proving remarkably popular (on a number of different amusement levels!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. wingpig
    Member

    My wife was at a meeting at the actual council HQ this evening and was told by a driver "Did you hear there was a demo at the Chambers today? This bridge over Leith walknis going to take away parking spaces! And they want to build a cycle track along the M8! No, the A8!" and was apparently puzzled when my wife said it sounded like a good idea. "Think of the money!" etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. HankChief
    Member

    From the Westminster cycling debate today.

    "Studies have found that cyclists spend more in local shops" says @drewhendrySNP - shop owners take note! #funding4cycling

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    Worth recalling that in 2012 local elections, Conservative Balfour got the most votes, followed closely by SNP Ross, then Lib Dem Edie. Labour McInally a close fourth, not elected.

    It's a fair bet that a majority of local residents are at least small 'c' conservatives if not big 'C' ones...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. LivD
    Member

    I don't know... At a very local level people are perhaps more free to vote for someone they know, or friend of a friend etc. Rather than just toeing a party line. Or is it just me?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. Stickman
    Member

    @kaputnik

    Good work. I see Bob Gunderson has picked it up so all is well.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. wingpig
    Member

    What do we want?
    "Cramped footways and loads of space for motor vehicles."
    When do we want it?
    "It's OK, there are loads here already. Thanks anyway."

    I'm anxious to see how the EEN spins the protest. They already used 'mass' for the one outside the drop-in.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. HankChief
    Member

    Response from Alison Dickie

    "

    Many thanks for the opportunity to respond via email…indeed, the limited characters on Twitter are a personal challenge!  I’m also sorry that I didn’t get the chance to chat to you at the Murrayfield Community Council, but I do recall the passionate case you put forward in regard to the Roseburn to Leith Walk cycle route.

     

    Firstly, as your SNP candidate, I’m committed to active and sustainable travel.  I completely understand the importance of encouraging commuters out of their cars in favour of walking and cycling.  The health benefits are obvious to me, as is tackling congestion and air pollution.  I can also understand how safer routes will encourage more take-up of cycling, and I have often commented on that myself.  Personally, I love walking and, during this campaign alone, have covered the length and breadth of Edinburgh Central mainly on foot.  

     

    As I’m sure you’re aware, the SNP Government, in their Cycling Action Plan, have committed to a vision of 10% of everyday journeys being undertaken by bike by 2020 – an investment of almost £36 million.  From my perspective, I believe that walking also has a key role to play in our promotion of active travel, with over 35% of journeys by Edinburgh residents being made on foot.

     

    My initial thoughts on the Roseburn to Leith Walk cycle route are that, although I very much welcome safer routes to encourage more cyclists, there are some genuine concerns from others to be considered. And, of course, the ideal would be to find a solution that is fair to all.

     

    One of the key concerns appears to be around the consultation as many from the local community feel they were not informed about the proposals until at a very detailed stage.  This would be reflected in the lack of representatives attending the consultation workshops.  In any consultation, I think it’s important that all local voices are heard from the very outset of a consultation to ensure the best democratic outcome.  Given the strength of feeling from local residents and businesses as to the negative impact on their businesses and livelihoods, this level of democracy does not seem to have been achieved on this occasion.  It would be remiss of us not to listen to those concerns.

     

    As you are aware, complaints include concerns about the removal of the bus lanes on a busy transport corridor.  Public transport also plays a key role in encouraging commuters out of their cars, and the impact of bus lanes is not clear at this point.  This particular issue requires further investigation to ascertain the impact.  In addition, the realignment of the taxi rank at Haymarket station, which is the city’s only integrated transport hub, requires careful consideration.

     

    In conclusion, I am very supportive of promoting active travel.  However I am of the view that what we need to do is to properly consult with the local community, both residents and businesses, working together to design a scheme which will be suitable for all parties involved, while helping to achieve our ambitious goals set out in the Cycle Action Plan for Scotland.

     

     

    Kind Regards,

    Alison

     

    Alison Dickie

    SNP Candidate for Edinburgh Central
    "

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. SRD
    Moderator

    Sigh. By all accounts, the community council and others failed to engage with the original consultations.

    Frustrating that people don't appreciate how biased the current road layouts are, when saying that all interests need to be taken into account.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Stickman
    Member

    PG and a group from the Local Community were at east end of Roseburn Park this morning. There was a Person With Clipboard who was Talking Importantly. I think this may be in connection with his other ongoing campaign about trees in the park, but could be related to the path. Who knows what is triggering his outrage gland at any particular time.

    I resisted the temptation to shout "number 1 of 6 this hour" as I rolled past.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. Min
    Member

    Ha. Perfect SNP response. We strongly support active travel. But don't want to do anything to facilitate it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    "Ha. Perfect SNP response. We strongly support active travel. But don't want to do anything to facilitate it upset the motorists"

    FTFY

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. "By all accounts, the community council and others failed to engage with the original consultations."

    Had a look at the community council website and and cycling seems to have come up a lot, but, well... On 28 Oct 2014 Euan Renton of Spokes came along, and the meeting minutes are rather depressing reading, with statements like:

    "It was agreed that speeding cyclists are the most common problem on paths and pavements and that cyclists who jump red traffic lights are particularly dangerous."

    Interestingly, the big problems seem to be:

    • shared paths along the NCR and WoL and pavement on Russell Rd
    • cyclists on the road (not "visible" to drivers)

    Here's a brilliantly creative solution to both problems: What about if we build a segregated dedicated cycle path so that cyclists are off the shared paths and off the road? Has anybody thought of that yet?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. Stickman
    Member

    There's that SNP commitment to a vision again.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Stickman
    Member

    The Consultation page shows the key dates as "Results expected 26 Feb" and "Feedback expected 25 March".

    How does this fit in with the transport committee on 15 March? Will the results be presented there or is this being pushed back even further?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. HankChief
    Member

  24. crowriver
    Member

    "Some cycling campaigners have indicated that we are opposed to segregated cycle ways. This is categorically not the case. "

    Ouch! Someone was stung, maybe after reading this forum? Or maybe received an e-mail or three from folk here?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. SRD
    Moderator

    They really don't get how negative the tone of their submission is.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    "We are especially concerned at the effect on elderly and disabled bus passengers who will not be expecting to encounter cyclists on alighting."

    What, on the first time they step off after the cycle track has been built? Thereafter, presumably they are capable of remembering it is there, in the same way they remember the road is full of cars.

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I saw Alex Cole-Hamilton out leafleting whilst cycling home last night. I hollered over to him: "Thanks for supporting the cycle track, Alex!"
    "No problem," he replied.

    He gets it, I wish some other of his fellow candidates did too.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. crowriver
    Member

    Alas, with the Holyrood elections looming large, politicians from different parties will need to be seen to take sides in this dispute. Why take the minority position and risk offending hard pressed, otherwise law abiding family motorists, when siding with the majority interest is so much easier. No point jeopardising the petrol head small (minded) business owner vote if you're Tory or SNP, is there? Particularly in an area where they are sharpening pitchforks against the hated cyclists.

    "As a cyclist myself, I feel it is vital we do something about these pesky cyclists getting in everyone's way and generally causing a nuisance."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. steveo
    Member

    Aye, but as long as the politico's don't actively quash the idea they can shout and rage all they like it won't even begin building till well into the next term when MSP's don't really care what's happening in Scotland.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    "By all accounts, the community council and others failed to engage with the original consultations."

    My understanding is that NONE of the businesses turned up to the workshop they were invited to.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    From LSE link -

    "

    The first concern is that Roseburn Terrace will not be able to accommodate a well-designed cycle bypass / floating bus stop which minimises conflicts with pedestrians queuing, alighting from or getting on buses. Conflicts of this nature will not be good for cyclists either. So far, the experience of such infrastructure in the UK has not been good, especially TFL’s efforts in London, where Living Streets has observed significant problems at a number of busy high streets. We are especially concerned at the effect on elderly and disabled bus passengers who will not be expecting to encounter cyclists on alighting.

    "

    To repeat -

    "

    The first concern is that Roseburn Terrace will not be able to accommodate a well-designed cycle bypass

    "

    I'm sure we ALL agreed with that. I'm sure Spokes and LSE (and LS/S) will be happy to work together to make sure CEC does it properly.

    A repost from yesterday.

    "

    GM Cycling Campaign (@GMcycling)
    03/02/2016, 12:51
    The @OfficialTfGM trial bus-stop bypass has been thoroughly assessed with input from @livingstreets. The plan is to build more. @kim_harding

    "

    Presume LS in London are aware of this and can advise their Edinburgh colleagues.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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