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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!)

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  1. Min
    Member

    The first concern is that Roseburn Terrace will not be able to accommodate a well-designed cycle bypass / floating bus stop which minimises conflicts with pedestrians queuing, alighting from or getting on buses. Conflicts of this nature will not be good for cyclists either.

    I am confused. Minimising conflict causes conflict?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. Rosie
    Member

    To do Person with Clipboard justice he is on the Roseburn Park Committee (about 6 people). Trees in Roseburn Park are being felled for the flood defences. He wants a fallen tree to be kept for kids to climb on. That seems to me a reasonable aim tho' I bet the Health & Safety lot won't allow it.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    From Alison Dickie -

    "

    As you are aware, complaints include concerns about the removal of the bus lanes on a busy transport corridor. Public transport also plays a key role in encouraging commuters out of their cars, and the impact of bus lanes is not clear at this point.

    "

    All the more reason for making it clear that measures to improve things for (potential) bike riders need to be designed well and not be to the detriment of pedestrians and bus users. It's so easy to get agreement on this sort of thing...

    "

    This particular issue requires further investigation to ascertain the impact.

    "

    Absolutely, agree again!

    "

    In addition, the realignment of the taxi rank at Haymarket station, which is the city’s only integrated transport hub, requires careful consideration.

    "

    Quite so, though I think some of the objectors haven't actually looked at the plans. All these things are part of a serious look at 'reallocating roadspace'.

    Think it's important that people write to her thanking her for her interest and comments and agreeing that there need to be Fairer and Smarter ways of using roadspace. Will also help with making things Healthier, Safer and Stronger and Greener (and perhaps Roseburn traders Wealthier).

    http://www.gov.scot/About/Performance/scotPerforms/objectives

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. acsimpson
    Member

    Kids not Suits in campaigning for the kids shocker! As a one time kid myself (my wife says I still act like one) this seems like a good idea, now if only there was a way for me to get my kids there without using the car.

    Isn't that tweet from Manchester rather than London?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    "Isn't that tweet from Manchester rather than London?"

    Yes, but the point is (if the Tweet is to be believed) that Manchester is learning from mistakes(?) in London with the help of LS.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. The bus stop in Roseburn isn't in the narrow section in front of the shops but near the old bridge. It doesn't look like there would be a significant space problem that can't be sorted out.

    Generally I can see concerns about crossing bike lanes, but surely this really depends (like so much else) on the pedestrian and cycle density. Princess St - yes, that needs more thinking, but Roseburn Terrace?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. Claire
    Member

    I saw Man With a Clipboard and a posse this morning at Roseburn Park. I am pretty sure Man With a Clipboard was the same chap I spoke to at the Roseburn consultation event who had the anti-petition to hand... Am I correct?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    Shortlisted

    "

    City Centre to West Edinburgh Urban Cycling Corridor

    City of Edinburgh Council This project is focused on making cycling an attractive travel choice in one of the key urban corridors in Scotland. It is part of the Council’s strategy to accommodate Edinburgh’s future growth in a sustainable way while adding to the city’s quality of life. The project would deliver a joined-up cycle route from Edinburgh city centre to the western edge of the city, linking to some of Edinburgh’s biggest generators of local journeys and integrating with both tram and rail. New infrastructure would be focused on catering for people who are put off cycling by heavy and fast traffic. Routes would use protected on-street cycle tracks, quiet 20mph streets, or high quality cycleways/footpaths. Significant public realm enhancements and improvements in provision for pedestrians are integrated into the proposals. New infrastructure delivery would be reinforced by a supporting smarter choices programme.

    "

    http://www.sustrans.org.uk/scotland/what-we-do/communities/grants-community-infrastructure

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "Am I correct?"

    Always.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. Stickman
    Member

    Claire: the Clipboard must have been handed over by the time you saw them; the anti-petition man was Clipboard-less when I saw him.

    Rosie: thing is I would really love to see Roseburn Park developed: it's underused as just a sports venue and some of it could be reallocated for a better play area or small gardens, so I would back Friends Of Roseburn Park. Unfortunately PG's tactics have made me doubt anything he says.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. daisydaisy
    Member

    @chdot

    "By all accounts, the community council and others failed to engage with the original consultations."

    My understanding is that NONE of the businesses turned up to the workshop they were invited to.

    I went to the workshop, and it's true that none of the businesses turned up. There was one representative of the local community council who said that the local businesses were opposed. He did like the idea of wider pavements though.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. daisydaisy
    Member

    If we could just magic up wider pavements without taking any space from the cars, then that would be just super.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. Rosie
    Member

    @ Stickman

    I would like to see it as marshlands with raised embankments for walkers and cyclists. Let the Leith spill on to it now and then and be soaked up, while wild fowl roam free. However I don't see that being acceptable to the residents.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. Stickman
    Member

    @Rosie: that would be lovely. The wee marshland beside the Kelpies is great and attracts lots of birds. No reason that we couldn't get something like that in Roseburn. (Other than the opposition of the Local Community).

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "I would like to see it as marshlands"

    Would be a useful 'extra' wildlife/visual interest bit.

    Would work in The Meadows too!

    Also along the line of the Stank at Carrick Knowe golf course.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. Claire
    Member

    Ah, good to know I'm not going mad. I recognised Man With a Clipboard's buff and high vis accoutrement as I tootled past. Another man told me "well done" because I dinged my bell, haha.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. Stickman
    Member

    Oh dear, I didn't ring my bell as I went past - another black mark against b****y cyclists!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. @Claire and @Stickman You should have stopped and asked how to get to the main road to buy some coffee and a sandwich...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. Stickman
    Member

    ...or get advice on which pavement it was ok to cycle on to get to Balbirnie...

    No story in the EEN today. I'm guessing Friday is when they get most clickbait hits.

    EDIT: here it is...

    http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/roseburn-cycleway-plan-protesters-deliver-2600-strong-petition-1-4021028

    Slow handclap for Living Streets: their criticism is the angle that's being taken.

    And the "No to pollution, no to congestion" poster is slightly at odds with the speeches complaining of a council war on cars...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. wingpig
    Member

    "they accused the council of “declaring war on the car"

    Obviously not EEN readers, or they'd have added "again".

    There is at least a "crucial" in the description of the filling-in of the missing link, but it gets lost amidst the severity of harm to befall the residents and shopkeeps.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. acsimpson
    Member

    Lesley said:
    “We received petitions from campaigners both in favour and against our proposals, and it is now our intention to consider both along with all other consultation feedback.”

    Let's hope she can persuade her colleagues to do the right thing. Consider the misleading details on the anti petition, consider the comments from people who clearly haven't looked at the plans, consider the potential benefits to pedestrians from the scheme, consider any valid concerns of local businesses and build the best scheme possible.

    Roseburn place wouldn't be used by commuters heading along the A8 and it wouldn't encourage any new cyclists out of their single occupancy vehicles. There is a chance it could be used by parents accompanying their families out on their bikes, but only if the parking is removed along the length of it and the junctions are redesigned to give cyclists priority, however parents like these are likely to find a way to get their families.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    Just cycled back from town. Needed lunch and was planning on popping in to a cafe in Haymarket or Roseburn, but somehow the massive signs put me off...

    I did, however, stop off at Bike Smith and give him the lowdown. The lad in the workshop was blissfully unaware what the signs on his fellow shops' doors were. I told him. Needless to say, they were very keen to have a cycle track outside their shop and I pressed upon him the need to email the Council (whose details I provided) as a business in Haymarket and, if he felt like it, have a word with other Haymarket businesses.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. SRD
    Moderator

    http://www.sustrans.org.uk/scotland/what-we-do/communities/grants-community-infrastructure

    shortlisting announced...

    ADMIN EDIT

    SRD missed post near top of page - still a lively topic!

    Have started new thread in light of shortlisting.

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16021

    Obviously there's overlap, post where you want.

    Will need threads for each section eventually!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. Stickman
    Member

    ...and Living Streets tweeting about how excited they are about them.

    *bangs head on desk*

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. wingpig
    Member

    Is Living Streets Edinburgh a breakaway/rogue chapter who weren't happy with their parent organisation's stance?

    That mismatch between the tweet agreeing with floating bus stops versus LSE's "impact!" needs to be cited in our letters to our representatives on the transport committee.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. Claire
    Member

    I wasn't 100% sure whether it was the same chap or not. I did consider a really loud "wheeeeeeeeeee" as I went by but in the end I just dinged the old bell. I'm a square that way. However, I didn't have a helmet on, so my card was likely marked regardless ;)

    Also, that 6 cyclists per hour claptrap. Honestly. What a silly sausage.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    "That mismatch between the tweet agreeing with floating bus stops versus LSE's "impact!" needs to be cited in our letters to our representatives on the transport committee."

    I hope various people/orgs will be meeting various people from various bits of LS soon.

    It is not helpful to disagree on this sort of thing. There is no suggestion that CEC 'has all the answers' or that what they are proposing can't be improved BUT the idea the biggest threat to pedestrians is people on bikes is, er, WRONG!

    ALSO pedestrians and 'cyclists' have more in common that this fuss suggests. Any "division" won't help anyone to make this a nicer city to live in.

    It will of course help those who don't like 'cyclists' (none of whom have ever been know to walk anywhere) and anyone who is happy with the status quo and believe in 'the natural order' where motor vehicles are more important than people.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    Also any suggestions (mentioned previously on this thread) that 'cycling' gets a disproportionate amount of money (compared with walking) is not only untrue but also sounds rather petulant...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. I would hope that LSE now writes a positive article for EEN and other local media on active travel and support of various concrete schemes.

    It seems to me that they really have to show some effort to limit the damage - the clarification on the website is a start, but should go beyond their own blog, now that they have been quoted in the EEN.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. ih
    Member

    Does anyone have details of names and addresses, email and post, of people in LS Edinburgh to whom we can write, pointing out why they are misguided, unhelpful, and not furthering their own cause.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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