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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!)

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "adamrmcvey is suggesting a stakeholder group to oversee design,as they did in Leith"

    I don't actually know what this refers to. I don't know if there ever was a 'final' group actually overseeing the "design".

    There may have been but I don't know.

    There were certainly lots of meetings with different 'factions' - I went to a couple of the 'cycling' ones. There was a lot of discussion around the council saying 'that's not possible', 'that's too expensive', 'that would hold up the buses', 'have to allow for the possibility of extending the tram'.

    One 'no way' was removing the London Road roundabout. As far as I know, that IS due to happen. There was no give way one the notion that the bottom half of LW was "too narrow" for segregated bike lines.

    They weren't persuaded by calls for planters and other temporary items to 'experiment to see what works'.

    There were also the McDonald Rd 'drop-ins' and at least one public meeting.

    The LW - Roseburn project may or may not be more controversial, but after LW and George St. I think 'the council' is both bolder and more understanding and (perhaps) the 'general public' more accepting about the need for more active travel stuff.

    At this stage I think it's a bit premature for 'stakeholder meetings' to do any sort of design work.

    It might be sensible for 'Economic Development' to have a look at Roseburn.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    Transport only works across the whole of Edinburgh not in 100 metre strips of businesses being forced to park legally. We need to make this happen now as despite the objections this is the moment.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    P.s. What used to be Economic Dev Comm is now

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/directory_record/626745/economy_committee

    Councillor Frank Ross (Convener)
    Councillor Gordon Munro (Vice-Convener)

    Cllr Munro has been Ok on 'cycling' in the past.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. Comment on the EEN article by "Markitos":

    "So this is now a case of one smug middle-class lobbyist group (Living Streets) disagreeing with another (Spokes). Whatever are the council going to do?!?"

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    Well there's some truth in that!

    It's not really knowable how much council listens to anyone...

    LSE might be correct in thinking that it 'does what Spokes want' - more than LSE.

    There might be good reasons for that...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. daisydaisy
    Member

    @stephen mattiesen There was a Living Streets public meeting in June that I went to. I don't know of more planned.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. daisydaisy
    Member

    Here's the thread about the living streets meeting. The least radical protest group I've ever met. http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14791

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. @daisydaisy Thanks, interesting thread. In the meantime I asked David Hunter on Twitter about meetings but got a rather cryptic reply. Doesn't look as if I will be supporting them...

    @RangiRevo: "@dvrh9 You said on cycling forum you want meet&debate. When is next meeting please?"

    @dvrh9: "@RangiRevo lse will no doubt participate in forthcoming meetings. As I also said, I'm not persisting in online discussion".

    @RangiRevo: "@dvrh9 Question was: do you arrange meeting soon to discuss your submission? Many people disappointed, you lose support if you don't engage"

    (https://twitter.com/RangiRevo/status/695348272810979329)

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. Stickman
    Member

    Does anyone know how the council goes about assessing which streets need lollipop crossings? Are there criteria on traffic flow, accidents etc?

    Wondering if there is anything about why Roseburn Place was chosen to have one.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    "Does anyone know how the council goes about assessing which streets need lollipop crossings? Are there criteria on traffic flow, accidents etc?"

    Don't know about crossings, but there are criteria for resurfacing etc. which include usage. Also a separate criterion for cycle usage. The ratings/multipliers for these criteria, added to a condition rating gives each location a score: the higher the score the sooner the road/footway/path gets resurfaced.

    I imagine there are similar criteria for prioritising crossing points, and I'm sure I've seen lists on the council web site at some point, but can't recall details of how scoring works. As to new crossings (say at junctions in a new development) I guess that is down to the design team.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. steveo
    Member

    Just had the misfortune of walking along haymarket terrace solid line of taxis with their engines running desperate for a fare.

    I'm supremely unclear how this benefits local businesses.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. Stickman
    Member

    steveo:

    That's funny, I was thinking exactly that as I cycled along there this morning. I was planning to put up my camera footage of it with a comment about how the Haymarker shops would lose all that valuable customer parking to a bike lane.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "

    TransportEnvironment (@transenv)
    01/02/2016, 09:23
    Did you know that 50% of all delivering in most European cities could be done by bike? http://www.ecf.com/news/what-can-governments-do-for-more-cycling-in-urban-logistics/

    http://pic.twitter.com/RpwkLLHIQ6

    "

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Roseburn Terrace from junction with Roseburn street was solid, unmoving, idling, single-occupant vehicles this morning, pretty much as far back as Western Corner.

    I'm sorry that my cycling sedately past the lot of them contributed so much to pollution and congestion by daring to breathe out CO2.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. Rosie
    Member

    Roseburn Street had a much longer queue this morning as well turning into Roseburn Terrace. A hold up somewhere...

    I of course cycled past the queue and then on to the path on the pavement to turn on to Russell Road. No doubt I caused congestion...

    Have to say practically every day a driver in Russell Road waves me through to turn right from pavement on to road.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    "practically every day a driver in Russell Road waves me through to turn right from pavement on to road"

    Is that good/bad?

    Ie helpful or telling you off?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. Rosie
    Member

    Helpful! They're giving me time and space.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    "They're giving me time and space."

    Valuable commodities.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. cb
    Member

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/comment-meaningful-dialogue-vital-to-get-plan-right-1-4021015

    "
    It seems clear already that there is significant public concern about the current proposals for a cycle superhighway through the west of the city. There is widespred [sic] disquiet among residents, including some keen cyclists, and local busineses [sic], about some elements of the plan. Now Living Streets campaigners have added their voice to the objections.
    "

    (Well done Living Streets).

    Also...

    "
    Many people are still scratching their heads about how the city’s official consultation on its plans to roll out 20mph speed limits on most of the Capital’s streets failed to register much public concern.
    "

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. SRD
    Moderator

    "There is merit in the idea of a major cycle route through Edinburgh, but the plans need to be right, striking a delicate balance between many competing factors, before they go-ahead."

    This presumes that the current layout *is* balanced, which it isn't.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. Stickman
    Member

    "Meaningful dialogue"

    - could we please have a little bit of the road?
    - beat it, Lycra-clad zealots*

    *message approved by local councillors

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. "plans to roll out 20mph speed limits on most of the Capital’s streets failed to register much public concern."

    Perhaps there just isn't much public concern?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "Perhaps there just isn't much public concern?"

    I think that's largely true.

    However

    I suspect the Scotsman is only remembering the technical final stage where there weren't many objections.

    The consultation period had LOTS of interest, unfortunately, most people seemed to like the idea.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. Morningsider
    Member

    So, apart from the online surveys, public meetings, leaflet drops, library displays, media coverage, social media debates, community council meetings and pro/anti-petitions - the argument is that people aren't aware of the proposals.

    I see.

    Then to compound this problem the "wrong sort of people" are responding to these consultations - not real, local, salt of the earth, hard working families and wealth creating motorists. No - cyclists! With their devious foreign ways and mysterious ability to know what is happening in their communities.

    Something must be done!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    "Something must be done!"

    If only that were possible.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    "the "wrong sort of people" are responding to these consultations"

    EXACTLY.

    It's a conspiracy.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. Rosie
    Member

    ""They're giving me time and space."

    "Valuable commodities."

    Indispensable, even.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. Stickman
    Member

    Well, the negative campaigning is getting through to some people. My wife was on the bus going through Roseburn today and overhead the following conversation:

    -What are those signs in the shops?
    -I think it's about a cycle lane. The shops say if it gets built they'll all close. And that's terrible because they are local shops and there are lots of old folk who live round there who can't get to other ones.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    "The shops say if it gets built they'll all close."

    I hope someone keeps track of all the shops that close/move/change before (and after) any of this happens.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    Traffic CHAOS (caused by pedestrians)

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16031

    Posted 6 years ago #

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