"the "wrong sort of people" are responding to these consultations"
Doubtless these lycra-clad zealots I've heard tell of, sipping lattés with their chums too boot!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
(5535 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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"The shops say if it gets built they'll all close."
So that's how they convinced 2000 people to sign their paper petition.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chdot I hope someone keeps track of all the shops that close/move/change before (and after) any of this happens.
They change all the time. One person's closure is another person's business opportunity. Plenty of shops in Edinburgh. The city will never run out of them - although we might have an oversupply of certain type of shops now. Obviously business likes the idea of a 'settled' environment but in the end footfall is what makes a good shopping environment.
To have good footfall you should have more 'people space'.Posted 8 years ago # -
Traffic CHAOS (caused by pedestrians)
Never quite understood the use of adjectives like chaos to describe queues of stationary vehicles
It's uncomfortable for all concerned, but really quite orderly.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've been trying to follow the twitter debate with Cllr Ross but he is just deaf to reason. It does raise the question of what is meant by local democracy and whether local majority in a small franchise can override the opposite view held by a majority in a larger (but perhaps less local) electorate.
What annoys me about Ross is his obvious choosing of when to be local and when to take a wider view. For example, according to his LinkedIn page he is a director of Essential Edinburgh: now, would he accept the result of a plebiscite of the people of Broughton and the New Town on whether to continue the winter mudfest in St Andrew Square? I think not.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ Klaxon - that's true (and very funny). Even the kind of traffic you get in Cairo, say, is not "chaos" because they are usually facing the same way on each side of the road and are in lines. Chaos would be something like the dodgems without fixed tracks.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Are old people driving to the roseburn shops and parking illegally in the bus lane or on the pavement? Err, I think the last old person I met was actually complaining about illegal parking. I think I can find at least one old person to say I welcome this traffic calming measure as it will force shopkeepers and white van drivers to park responsibly.
This whole thing is about people wanting to park where they like fuelled by a former pal of mine with an axe to grind against the council ( to such an extent that he will oppose even schemes he would formerly have welcomed ).
We need to convince Lesley hinds to push this through now.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Are old people driving to the roseburn shops and parking illegally in the bus lane or on the pavement? "
I thought that's the workmen for their mid-morning haircut at the local barber before having their elaborate wedding cakes reframed in the art shop?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Similarly at Haymarket Terrace, where the shops are kept busy by taxi drivers popping in for some flowers, wearing the kilt they've just hired whilst their sewing machines are fixed.
Posted 8 years ago # -
When we take the car out of Balerno, usually five of us in it (though some of the passengers now starting to live independently and just using house as hotel, car as taxi etc) we tend to look for a good parking spot then walk a bit to wherever we are going. Obviously we are mobile in this way. If we have my mother too, she is less mobile and we tend to take the bus or drop granny off nearer wher we are going then go and park properly elsewhere.
Is this what everyone else does? How many people out there need to park at exactly the place they are going to? I tend to spot this when it has caused a tailback e.g. Last night 6.30pm outside the excellent taste good restaurant at shandon. A person was annoyed that they had parked in the bus lane and could not get out as another diner had parked in front of them. They seemed to be trying to turn into the traffic in the lane to their right. Not sure if this was achieved as I was able to squeeze past them. When we go to pick up from taste good we park round the corner where it is both legal and sensible. Are we being too sensible?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Gembo - everyone needs to park at the door. They pay their taxes you know.
The worst example I have ever seen is in Bruntsfield Place where a motorist drove their tank into a parking space next to one of the shops. They then reversed the tank so that the passenger door was exactly aligned with the shop door and they were now taking up TWO parking spaces. Why walk?
Posted 8 years ago # -
It will be interesting to see the actual consultation responses.
The protesters clearly mobilised a large proportion of the local population to sign the petition, but it's not clear why people signed. I doubt that many decided after systematically evaluating the impacts of transport choices on the local economy. Much of it seemed to be gut feelings in negative (comment on petition: "More cycling lane lunacy from stalinist council") and positive form ("save our shops").
I doubt everybody will have responded to the consultation too, and an even smaller proportions written anything more specific than the general "it will destroy the shops".
It's often easy to get a lot of signatures on a "save our local shops/park/xyz" but then people don't act on it. I'm pretty sure many who "support" the cake shop still get into their car and drive out to Sainsbury's to buy their cake.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Min, good example but like mine I am wondering how common this behaviour is. I remember it as it is selfish and like last night's sometimes self defeating as encourages others to do the same and you get stuck. But please tell me there are tons more people parking properly that I just don't see or remember?
Posted 8 years ago # -
If we're doing selfish parking, I was waiting on a bacon buttie from the van on the links the other week and a BMW pulled up on the opposite side of the road next to parking space, caused an obstruction then, once the traffic had cleared the obstruction caused by him, he proceeded to do a uturn and double park next to the van.
That way he didn't even have to cross the road.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@gembo At the shops in Walter Scott Avenue, people also park in right in front of the shops. Typical example on Streetview (notice the empty parking bays!) https://goo.gl/maps/Uq3qnnPuZWQ2
Well actually most don't "park", more frequently the husband drives their wife to the shop and waits in the car with engine running. Does this count as loading?
Ok, it's not illegal here, but it is an issue at busy times when it's just weird that many of the parking bays are empty but cars line up along the shops and often drivers have much more problems squeezing in (parallel parking!). There was a second bike rack which was destroyed by a reversing driver within 2 weeks of being installed (they have now been moved to the phone box).
Posted 8 years ago # -
(From the comments on the EEN south sub article:
"K***N**S****
w, we all know that CEC has £9M sitting in its bank account, dedicated to a cycle track from Roseburn to Leith. Howzabout the Council takes the dosh off the cycling officers and gives it to the suburban rail? That way they'll be reducing future congestion twice at no extra cost.
And at the same time, just to make sure the dirty vehicles in the city centre get left at home (mine included), bring back the Congestion Charge!
The Council lost the referendum on it in 2002, this time I think they may get it through."Posted 8 years ago # -
Gembo - it is probably hard to put a figure on but my feeling is that everyone parks badly or illegally in the same way that everyone speeds, uses their mobile while driving and jumps red lights. Ie, they certainly do not but it is so common as to be normal and any attempt to stamp it out is an assault on the poor beleaguered motorist.
I am personally a fan of parking as far away as possible as it virtually guarantees a space.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Meanwhile elsewhere -
"
The orders challenged in the present case involved measures such as pedestrian priority crossings, "modal filters" (through which cyclists and pedestrians may pass, but not vehicular traffic), one-way streets, shared highway and footway space, also known as "blended" or "Copenhagen" crossings, road closures, pedestrianised areas, parking places and parking restrictions.
"
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/3907.html
(They lost)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Stickman - hey, if CEC can reinstate the south sub for 9 million, I'd vote for that! :-)
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
"I am going to refuse permission to appeal," said the judge. "The ... way in which the application is made shows the unfortunate tendency in this case for the claimant's argument to shift."
The Labour-run council was taken to the High Court in order to overturn road remodelling in Walthamstow village. The objection was that the council had not consulted sufficiently with local people, a claim rejected by Justice Holgate.
Last year a street protest was organised by E17Streets4All, with a coffin safely carried down the traffic-free street the campaign wished to see blocked with motor cars again. 17Streets4All’s Facebook page – which has not had any postings since October 2015 – said: “We are a group of Walthamstow residents and business owners [who have] come together … to challenge the implementation of the Mini Holland scheme in its current form and achieve the implementation of a sensible, redesigned scheme acceptable to the majority of people living or working in the area.”
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
A basic new railway station costs around £3m. Electrifying the sub would cost around £30m. Signalling upgrades would probably be in the region of £5m to £10m. You would need to deal with the Haymarket bottleneck - some sort of flyover that could accommodate tram-trains, say another £10m. You would have to buy the tram trains, around £3m each, say a minimum of 8 for any sort of service.
So a super rough estimate of around £92m for six new stations on the current loop. Add in extensions to the Royal Infirmary and the like and you are probably talking nearer to £200m.
Posted 8 years ago # -
So Gembo and min park a distance from destination. Everyone else parks at the door?
The cycle lane to cause congestion is mental. The congestion as testified is there already. I often avoid the snarled cars heading east into town on north side of the road at roseburn by err, CYCLING
Posted 8 years ago # -
The handy fact that my Brompton & I can normally get to Haymarket in 50-60 minutes for £0 vice 40 minutes for £9-£16 means I get to observe the antics on Corstorphine High Street, and Roseburn Terrace. Rude words are often breathed about the tin boxes that clog up the Glasgow Road as the coaches try to keep to a semblance of a timetable. (a tip here is to aim to get the independent Bruces M8 Express - with free Tunnocks Teacakes, charging sockets and tables -and relaxed mature drivers - plus locker doors that open fast to get your bike on and off - otherwise look to get the Western Scottish drivers (50% of the Citylink contract) as they tend to be older and in less of a rush that the Park's guys).
It might not have escaped your attention that not only was parking removed today (Saturday 6th) but traffic was also removed - for the 6 nations. Surely such a drastic measure would have had a ruinous effect on those local businesses, and it repeats in March.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Good points tulyar. I fear the shops at roseburn have now gone bust due to suspended parking. The pubs though are fine.
I was on a tram today which was mobbed due to same rugby but it did get along princes street v quick
Posted 8 years ago # -
@gembo, "fuelled by a former pal of mine with an axe to grind against the council ".
I know, I knew him for years and I can't believe what's happened to him. I sincerely hope I don't turn out like that when I retire!
@SM, "I thought that's the workmen for their mid-morning haircut at the local barber before having their elaborate wedding cakes reframed in the art shop?"
All while eating a bacon roll and sipping a takeaway coffee.
"I'm pretty sure many who "support" the cake shop still get into their car and drive out to Sainsbury's to buy their cake."
Indeed. Sainsbury's a fair bit cheaper I would imagine. Then crocodile tears when the cake shop closes down, doubtless the fault of lycra-clad zealots.
@gembo, "Are we being too sensible?"
Definitely. It's the DILLIGAF culture these days, get with the programme.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Minutes from the community council meeting:
http://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/inc/retrieve_file.php?id=217
The Chairman invited a cyclist to address the meeting
Not a member of the public. Not an Edinburgh resident. Not a human being. A cyclist, not a normal person worthy of listening to. A cyclist.
Pretty depressing, and made clear that Living Streets were going to oppose the plans.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Told ye, the sound of pitchforks being sharpened....the villagers are coming.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Oh I learned something from the MCC minutes. I had thought pollution comes from the number of cars, but Cllr Edie explains now that it's the number of pedestrian crossings....
Posted 8 years ago # -
A couple of snaps from Saturday afternoon:
Taken from the cycle path bridge over Corstorphine Road.
I was surprised how few people were using the NEPN to get to Murrayfield. Just a couple of small groups that looked like rugby supporters.You'd have a real problem expecting pedestrians to keep out of the cycle lanes under those circumstances, I think.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The EEN is really pushing this one...
Roseburn-Haymarket cycle route plan divides community
IT’S the £9 million plan that has shopkeepers and cyclists at loggerheads.
Posted 8 years ago #
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