HankChief is there a link to your petition in your blog post? I couldn't see it. Just compiling links for the Embassy blog roundup ...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
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Posted 8 years ago #
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@sallyhinch - duly updated.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Signed, I used to cycle along this route daily and still travel using public transport frequently.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The links I've been tweeting about protected cycle ways being good for business are actually a bit misleading - not about then being good for business, but because they presume pRking being taken away (being mainly American) when I doubt that much parking, if any, is being taken away. But I've still not had time to look at the materials properly.
From other sites - eg leith walk, tollcross, that I've managed to look at more carefully, the council has been careful to move-reallocate parking, but rarely reduces it. Parking survey data tends to be very instructive - often showing that some bays are hardly used, even in high use areas, and that some cars never move.
On Leith walk, the shopkeepers opposed parking removal/shorter times designed to generate turnover bitterly because it was where they parked their own cars, and they didn't want to move them. Nothing at all to do with their customers (who they know get there mainly by foot).
In tollcross, I know traders who have concerns about parking. Although most of their customers come by foot, some will come to get larger/heavier orders (eg wine for a party) by car. But in that case, it was interesting to note that the concern was as much about crossing the road, if parking on the other side, rather than in front of the shop.
Posted 8 years ago # -
it was interesting to note that the concern was as much about crossing the road
It also shows how wrong priorities are. If a business hears that its customers don't want to cross a road then the reaction should be to make the road safer, not to make it easier to park
Posted 8 years ago # -
"In tollcross, I know traders who have concerns about parking."
And have had for 30 years and more!
The grievance used to be that Tollcross had parking restrictions on Saturday afternoons when other parts of the city didn't.
More recently some shops near Haymarket Station had concerns (more tram related than about bike lanes or safety!) because they said 'most' of their customers came from a long way away.
I think it's reasonable to assume that most 'local shops' have local customers. Any that are more specialised clearly have/need more geographical spread customers.
Some will want to come by car - as some do to Princes Street etc (no parking outside those shops). Of course some shops will argue that business is so tight that discouraging the odd customer by restricting parking will mean their business is no longer viable.
This may be true, but most shops face bigger threats than whether or not there is a space outside. Increasingly shopping is being done via the internet, so the shops at Roseburn (and elsewhere) might be better (individually or collectively) improving their web presence rather than fighting change that might add customers.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Shopkeeper's own car must be directly outside their own shop, directly abutting the kerb so they can keep an eye out for traffic wardens and shift it if necessary. Keeping same amount of parking but moving it a bit is not acceptable as the sky will fall in. But using the special Gembo charm enhancer what I mean is the new segregated cycle path will increase footfall. Putting lugs on lampposts will allow the cyclists to park outside your shop and come in and buy stuff. It will be great.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Keeping same amount of parking but moving it a bit is not acceptable as the sky will fall in. "
Yeah, that just about sums up the position of the anti brigade.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
02/01/2016, 5:15 p.m.
E-W cycleroute drop-in event Jan18 at #RoseburnPrimary. @EilidhTroup @CyclingEdin @edfoc Pic:geograph.org.ukPosted 8 years ago # -
Have completed the mammoth online form for the consultation. Please everyone do the same, by 1st February. Don't let the anti brigade win this one!
(Yes, there are issues with the design, especially York Place, but overall it's a good scheme. I even argued the segregated route should be extended eastwards along north side of Regent Road and Montrose Terrace to join London Road bus lanes).
Posted 8 years ago # -
My wife has just completed this one too. She really has to bit between her teeth now and is willing to take up cycling if this route is created. Again, she filled the survey in as a car driver which I think has more power than as a cyclist. She said she would love to be able to cycle but was afraid of the heavy traffic and bad driving in edinburgh
Posted 8 years ago # -
For completeness, I've copied a link to my next blog on the subject where I tackle the local political positions on Active Travel vs opposition to the scheme coming down Roseburn Terrace.
https://hankchiefblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/04/cycling-politics-in-western-edinburgh/
[link edited - thanks Erob]
Petition is currently 36 against & 118 supportive...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Your link is broken, I think you want: https://hankchiefblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/04/cycling-politics-in-western-edinburgh/
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hankchief - I would be intrigued to know how Cllr Ross knows that all local businesses are opposed to the scheme. Given it runs almost right past the front door of Sustrans' Scottish office (9 Haymarket Terrace) that seems fairly unlikely.
It's always intriguing to see how much free reign parliamentary candidates are given to campaign on local issues by the national parties. In my experience, first timers are on a pretty tight leash, where old hands have a bit more leeway. Unless there is a manifesto commitment for more investment in active travel, I wouldn't expect a candidate to offer that up. Expect much buck passing to local authorities.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The Roseburn Cobbler (recommended) is a cyclist, I've seen him arriving/departing by bike so I'd be surprised if he were against it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Finally made my way through the consultation. Oh it is LONG!!! I commented on the bits I am mostly interested in and just "Strongly supported" everything else...
(Signed HankChief's petition too.)
Posted 8 years ago # -
- they'd thought about making Grosvenor Crescent/Landsowne Crescent one way but thought that drivers would probably ignore it coming out of Grosvenor Street, so will instead be using traffic calming and road redesign to improve things.
I've spent two hours so far typing in my response to the consultation, and actually the bit I seem to have the most problem with is the two crescents.
Look at the faded grandeur of this view:
Look at all that space between the houses, and tell me why we can't even extend a 2.5 metre wide cycle path through here? Oh yes, parking spaces for the mighty car.
How would the Dutch do it? Wouldn't they keep the two-way cycle lane going as far as possible, or constrain the drivers as much as possible? Will a ten year-old cycle their bike down one of those roads with all that parking there?
I want them to make the crescents into a sort of gyratory and then they could redesign the junction at St Mary's Cathedral, but it's pointless if they won't take away parking to help do it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
How would the Dutch do it?
Block it off to cars at one end, maybe add some speed humps, then let everyone get on with it together? They don't do separate cycle infrastructure everywhere, just on roads that go somewhere.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Arellcat I discussed Grosvenor/Lansdowne Cr with one of the design bods at one of the public consultations. He said that one of their concerns with making it one way around each side of the crescents was that drivers would go too fast, as they do in most one way streets.
When it was pointed out to him that that section was a gaping hole in the traffic-free design and one which would cause a lot of parents to not allow their young children to use the route, he noted this and said they could look at one-ways as a way of freeing up space.
I think that section is really important because of that, and the more responses with suggestions to one-way it, with traffic calming, the more chance they will look at it again. Seems like a no-brainer for residents too - calmer street, less of a rat-run.
Posted 8 years ago # -
If two way traffic must be maintained on the south side, what about the north side? What if that side was just for parking access (assuming the parking can't be removed) and a two-way cycle lane? Some creative bollards/speed bumps should do the trick.
EDIT: @cc beat me to it :)
Posted 8 years ago # -
It's possibly worth pointing out that, for anyone putting off filling in the online survey until they can find some spare time, it only takes a few minutes to go through if you just want to register your support (or otherwise) for each section of the route.
I'm sure that's preferable to not completing it at all.
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/roseburntoleith/consultation/intro/view
Posted 8 years ago # -
I was going to scribble things on a printout and physically send it in, rather than poffle abuot describing locations.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Story now on road.cc http://road.cc/content/news/174228-petitions-and-against-edinburgh-protected-cycle-route
Bit disappointed that instead of talking to hank chief they quoted Kim about George st/Princes St, which while an important point is totally irrelevant to the roseburn angle and the anti-petition (sorry Kim)
anyway, this comment on Hankchief's petition struck me as really to the point. is there some way of conveying this to the relevant shopkeepers?
"This would encourage me to visit and shop in Roseburn Terrace. I do presently use the NCN 1 route fairly regularly, but it is a significant detour and takes me well away from the businesses that might want my custom."
Posted 8 years ago # -
Thanks for the spot @srd. I've added a comment to the article and tweet to direct people to the blog.
One thing Cllr Ross tweeted several times on Hogmany in response to evidence that cycle lanes were good for business " I will advise all the local businesses and let them answer you directly". Perhaps there is an opportunity for him to redeem himself...
Posted 8 years ago # -
I think that section is really important because of that, and the more responses with suggestions to one-way it, with traffic calming, the more chance they will look at it again.
One-waying it I think is entirely possible. The best traffic calming I've seen is on Old Liston Road, where there are build-outs so that the road is 2.0 metres wide. No speed bumps required. Probably not great for fire engines though.
I've submitted my thoughts for this consultation. Now onto the canal one.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just done this. What an epic. Trying to mentally fit all the PDFs together into a cohesive whole was rather difficult. An online scrolly-map with comment bubbles would be much better so I suggested that in the "general comments" section.
Posted 8 years ago # -
http://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/news/news_detail/514
"[Cllr Balfour] expressed concern about the effect this change would have on other traffic, which would no longer be segregated from the buses, and on the shops at Roseburn, if no one can park near them"
"J Ogilvie, as a cyclist himself, pointed out that there is already a cycle track..."
"Cllr Ross ... pointed out that a bus lane is used by many more people than a cycle lane"
"D Huckle expressed the view that cyclists are still causing many problems to traffic"
Posted 8 years ago # -
LOL
J Ogilvie reminded him [D Huckle] that cyclists are themselves “traffic”.
(from the same link).Posted 8 years ago # -
Here are the "official" minutes:
http://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/inc/retrieve_file.php?id=216
Brilliantly, someone has said that the elderly will have difficulty crossing a cycle lane. Quite how they cross a road with four lanes of traffic where there is no signalled crossing (eg at the Roseburn Bar) isn't made clear....
Posted 8 years ago # -
EAST-WEST CONSULTATION – DROP IN ROSEBURN PRIMARY SCHOOL MONDAY 18TH JANUARY 4pm - 8pm
64 Roseburn Street, Edinburgh, EH12 5PL
This has been set up because there is a lot opposition to and debate on the plans in Roseburn area.
Posted 8 years ago #
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