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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. cb
    Member

    Here are the "official" minutes

    That sounded like a pretty grim session.

    Elsewhere in the minutes and somewhat related is a reference to the cut-through path from Murrayfield Gardens to Campbell Avenue (mentioned by Hankchief on the first page of this thread):

    "
    Footpath from 73 Murrayfield Gardens to Campbell Avenue
    J Forbes reported that he had met the owners of 73 Murrayfield Gardens a week earlier and had been told that they had decided not to transfer the land occupied by the footpath to Campbell Avenue to MCC for upgrading. They and their neighbours wished to retain the steps, which MCC wished to remove. The owners had decided to upgrade the path themselves, but he did not expect that to happen until after the winter. He intimated that he would not be pursuing this matter any further. In reply to a question J Forbes confirmed that the owners of the path are aware of their public liability.
    R Smart expressed the view that the condition of the path had worsened and he advised requesting a Health & Safety inspection if the steps are not improved in due course.
    "

    So the owners are going to upgrade the path. Will they remove the steps?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. Stickman
    Member

    I skimmed some of the previous minutes. The "No Cycling" stencils that have been seen in the area appear to be have painted at the behest of the community council.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. The Boy
    Member

    Painted by who?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Previous signs (plastic and painted on pavements) were the work of the police, at behest of CCs I think.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. HankChief
    Member

    @cb good spot re Murrayfield Gardens steps.

    They should really be made into a ramp though - couldn't / shouldn't have suggested that.

    I was going to suggest a ramp there as part of my consultation response as the protected cycle lane at the bottom of the hill continues West to the bottom of the Murrayfield Gardens so it would tie in well with that. Maybe too late though...

    I use the cut through the trees at the top of Ormidale Terrace which is step free.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. crowriver
    Member

    Well that means all three councillors for Murrayfield are vehemently opposed to the new cycle route. Is that really democratic? Are we to assume everyone in the ward is against cycle facilities? Is it really the 95% to 85% alluded to in the minutes by Cllr Ross?

    Surely not.

    But they and the community councillors would have us believe that is the case.

    There's a very real risk that this will be taken as the "voice of the community" in Murrayfield unless those in favour make their voices heard.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. SRD
    Moderator

    Well, the council will know that community councillors are rarely 'representative' in any serious meaning of the term. but that means someone else needs to get the other voices heard. or lobby the community council. doesn't arobcomp (sometime of this parish) live in that area?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. gembo
    Member

    @srd I have spotted Arobcomp at the cash machine next to roseburn cliff so he may well reside in the locality, unless he has moved?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. stiltskin
    Member

    I live in the vicinity, but I rather thought that the community council was a pointless talking shop for the self-important. Would lobbying them really achieve much?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. HankChief
    Member

    Wow - Just read those minutes...

    Chris Brace seemed to have done a good job in face of a hostile audience including the Councillors

    Maybe some of the hostility came from not getting notification of the consultation through their door...

    The next meeting is Wednesday 20th January 7.30pm Murrayfield Church - just saying...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    I suspect that a lot of them firmly believe that they are 'representative' because they talk to their neighbours and they all agree... but some will be aware that they are demographically skewed in various ways.

    If you send them representations then they do have to take them into account - unless they're seriously dodgy. they can't then file a response that is biased. again, all this assumes that they understand their role and take it seriously. my experience in Merchiston (and indirectly with Tollcross and Morningside) has been that the people involved are aware of their limitations and take their responsibilities seriously. i would hope that were true in Murrayfield too.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. Stickman
    Member

    I got lost down the rabbit hole this evening reading their past minutes. In almost every meeting D Huckle complains to the poor community police officers about "problem cyclists".

    Can a small group of about 20 people really derail positive transport plans for an entire city?

    I used to live in Murrayfield so may be tempted to go along....

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Can a small group of about 20 people really derail positive transport plans for an entire city?

    Don't quote me on this, but it's my understanding that the "power" of a community council when it comes to planning is the right to be informed of and comment on any applications, and nothing more. If you don't actively watch the planning portal, they're perhaps at an advantage of being aware of consultations; but anyone can watch the portal and comment if they so please.

    I'm not sure the comments or views of any community council are given any special gravity against those of any other contributor.

    Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. cb
    Member

    That Ormidale Terrace cut through wasn't on OSM - fixed now.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. HankChief
    Member

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/1477/scheme_for_community_councils

    3. The Role and Responsibilities of Community Councils
    The general purpose of community councils is to act as a voice for their local area. This will involve them articulating the views and concerns of local people in their area on a wide range of issues of public concern and make representations to the City of Edinburgh Council, other public sector bodies and private agencies on matters within their sphere of interest.

    Community councils have a statutory right to be consulted on planning applications.

    Community councils have a duty under statute to represent the views of their local community. It is vital therefore, that they reflect the broad spectrum of opinion and interests of all sections of the community.

    Interestingly Sarah Boyack, Marco Biagi & Cameron Buchanan all sent their apologies to the last meeting, but I can't quite work out their status. Given then have all attended (& Sarah & Colin spoken) at PoP, I wonder if it is worth someone in the area dropping them a line.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. fimm
    Member

    Marco Biagi is my MSP (but I don't live in Roseburn, I live in Gorgie) - can I help? I need to contact him about PoP anyway - I spoke to him at the last PoP I went to.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. LivM
    Member

    Oh [censored] about the Murrayfield Gardens steps. We live just by them and they are a nightmare to get the pram up. The steps are large, the path is narrow and (now) gravelly. You have to turn the pram around in the confined space and then haul them up - waking sleeping baby obviously. The residents are apparently concerned that if there is a ramp there they will be mown down by speeding cyclists (ever heard of chicanes?) (this is from the mouth of my local community Councillor's Rob Smart who also lives on our road).
    My elderly neighbour can't use the steps - no handrail - so has to go the long way round through the (muddy) woodland at the top of Ormidale Terrace.
    All very depressing.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. HankChief
    Member

    The house that owns it is obviously getting some landscaping done in the garden, but leaving in the steps as they are <sigh>

    Here's the muddy path LivD's Neighbour & I take...



    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. LivM
    Member

    To be fair to the owners, they have put a load of grey stone chippings down during the works (they had a lot of work done - mainly it was a new extension) which improved the previous quagmire. However the chippings are hard to push a buggy on and don't solve the problem of the steps of course.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    Anyone know who owns the land with the paths through?

    Any room for another path that doesn't use the stepped route?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. TonyJ
    Member

    At one point the entire strip of woodland was owned by the folk who lived in the house on the NE corner of Murrayfield Drive & Ormidale Terr. They built the row of lockups behind the house. That was many years ago ....

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. The Boy
    Member

    Not familiar with the area, but isn't that the sort of situation Compulsory Purchase Orders were designed for?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    CEC so hates CPOs!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. Stickman
    Member

    "CEC so hates CPOs!"

    That's interesting. At the consultation event I overheard the two council chaps discussing the junction at Roseburn Terrace/Roseburn Street/Russell Road. One of them said (paraphrasing) "The junction is a complete mess. Ideally we'd CP the Tesco building, knock it down and completely redesign the junction"

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. Rosie
    Member

    @Stickman
    I'd be loath to lose the useful Tesco, but yes, that is a terrible junction. The cycle work around of a blind corner shared path under a leaf mulch isn't much joy either, though a lot better than nothing.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. neddie
    Member

    Why on earth do they want to knock down the Tesco building? To add more lanes for motor cars?

    Plenty of room at that junction when you don't prioritise motors.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. Stickman
    Member

    It does need redesigned, or at least signalled properly. Traffic that wants to turn right out of Russell Road to turn left onto Roseburn Terrace ends up pulling some crazy manoeuvres. Drivers could be more sensible of course, but a lot of it is driven by the junction.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. neddie
    Member

    Regarding the objections to the Haymarket to Roseburn section:

    The objectors state that cycles can simply use the NCN that runs through Haymarket yards. But this does not solve the problem of how to safely get from NEPN to Roseburn Park and on to the Broomhouse path.

    So the on-road segregated link is still needed in front of the Roseburn shops between the NEPN and the park.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. neddie
    Member

    "Traffic that wants to turn right out of Russell Road..."

    ...is all rat-running traffic.

    Solution: block Russell Rd to through traffic. Job done.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. Stickman
    Member

    eddie_h:

    Yep, that would work!

    Posted 8 years ago #

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