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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. gembo
    Member

    I used to take that detour in the summer. More enjoyable, more exercise etc. However a segregated route like the wee one at the meadows would assist me in crossing town for sure.

    I am happiest on about a ten mile commute. Have been pushing it this week and am rather tired, all to win the cycle challenge. Actually, it has just been that the sun has come out and the wind dropped midweek. Last night a car had careered off the road at the bottom of ravelrig hill, the aa and tow truck in situ. oNly the bikes could get through, had enjoyable two a breast climb with dad of one of my son's pals.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. Stickman
    Member

    @claire:

    Don't worry, as soon as I get into Roseburn Park I get the joy back (even if it is barren now) and by the time I'm on the Pinkhill path I'm back in a little reverie.

    Cycling is b****y brilliant and some narrow minded young and old fogies aren't going to spoil it.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. gembo
    Member

    Lot of trees down in the park, round the back of where our mutual friend used to live. Flood defences

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. HankChief
    Member

    Somewhere upthread I said I had a friend who was looking to start commuting from Corstorphine to the East end of Princes St and if I could recommend a safe route <sigh>

    Well, today I guided her on a trial run.

    I've written it up as a blog

    Linkee

    I realise now that I should have taken some photos, so I'll go back tomorrow to get some to show the worse bits.

    I'd appreciate any thought before I start sharing it wider.

    Thanks.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "

    They were so used to their streets that they had no idea they could be changed, and the idea of riding a bike was foreign. Some believed that bike lanes cut the space needed to process traffic and to park. Some businesses feared the lanes would make it harder to get deliveries.

    "

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/bike-wars-are-over-and-the-bikes-won.html#

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. UtrechtCyclist
    Member

    The blog looks really great HankChief.

    I might put a line after 'Just because there is cycle infrastructure it doesn't mean you should use it' saying that well designed segregated cycle lanes make the whole world of difference and that some recent infrastructure developments in Edinburgh are very welcome.

    Just to avoid 'what's the point in building cycle lanes, the cyclists ignore them all anyway' type comments...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. HankChief
    Member

    Thank UC. Good point. Now updated.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. gembo
    Member

    @hankchief, depends who this is written for? Some assumed knowledge like what an ASL is. Few typos in the taxi incident para.. What was the destination? The bridges? You should maybe state this? Maybe I am being picky. Anyway a spot that there is no good way of getting to as you clearly set out. If you did not have the Novice with you, what route would you take? Would the proposed off road link to Dalry help canal, up through meadows? My point that to get anywhere near a safe route would involve a massive detour?

    Liked your article.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. HankChief
    Member

    @gembo. I guess I'm aiming it at those who don't understand just how important infrastructure is if we are to get new people to start cycling as transport.

    I've done guided rides before but never through the city centre and they are so much easier if it is more about route finding than managing the traffic around you.

    The other thing I didn't mention is how you do all tgat whilst you legs are burning from a sudden burst of exercise.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. Rob
    Member

    @HankChief Good blog, interesting to get a novice's experience in there too.

    Suggestions (typos/add/remove):

    "and my friend was in good spirits" OR "with my friend in good spirits"
    "a bit of a hard work for my friend"
    "It is on National Cycle Route 1"
    "St Andrews Square we got our first"
    "and not try to get to the Advanced Stop Line." - "instead, waiting in line" .. or something similar
    "The taxi driver decided to undertake"
    "As politely as I could manage, I asked him"
    "more tricky as you have to cross the tracks at"
    "It gives a clear, safe path for people to travel"
    "Edinburgh residents want to travel by bike around their city [1]." - cite source from other thread

    Perhaps pick out some key sentences like they do in newspapers, e.g. "If we’re serious about promoting green travel then commuting a few miles by bike shouldn’t really require bravery!", "If there were a more direct route into town with protected bike lanes then cycling would be the obvious way for me to commute to work."

    It might also benefit from some small maps, showing how the route develops while you're describing it. Then a larger one of the complete route at the end.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. Rob
    Member

    You could also mention that you can get cycle training if you don't have a cyclist friend to help you:

    "Because experience ranges from those who already know how to drive a car, to those who have always been pedestrians, and from those who have never cycled and want to learn, to those who want to brush up their skills to tackle a tricky commuting route, lessons will vary from person to person." - http://www.thebikestation.org.uk/edinburgh/cycling/cycle-training/

    Though you would probably need to contact them first to find out exactly what that entails.

    You could also save that for another blog, after trying it for yourself!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. HankChief
    Member

    Thanks. Amended and now with added photos (can't say I have mastered how to take & upload good ones...)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    Perfectly fine pix.

    SO much space at NB/P St. Junction.

    https://hankchiefblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/starting-out-on-cycle-commuting

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. Rosie
    Member

    @HankChief

    Good piece, which I've added to the Spokes Facebook page.

    Corstorphine to the Bridges - what should be an obvious flat and straightforward route but which the present infrastructure turns into a Tolkeinian quest.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. crowriver
    Member

    "If in doubt, get off and walk."

    Possibly the best piece of advice to any cyclist, experienced or not.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. Snowy
    Member

    Great nymag article, chdot.

    "When you push the status quo, it pushes back, hard."

    This.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. unhurt
    Member

    "what should be an obvious flat and straightforward route but which the present infrastructure turns into a Tolkeinian quest."

    That got a slightly sad snort from me. Especially as HankChief's guidee is my best friend & I had selfishly hoped she would start cycling to work - with a secret eye to tempting her on some longer rides (with sensible numbers of cake stops) in future.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Lothian Buses (@on_lothianbuses)
    14/03/2016, 9:42 am
    @adeleewing We are experience delays on Princes Street this morning due to congestion.

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    "

    A five-mile stretch of the A8 in Princes Street to Maybury Road was the most congested road with drivers spending an average of 43 hours in gridlock.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-named-one-of-most-congested-cities-in-uk-1-4070915

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    Oops, just read the comments.

    "

    And still they want to add to the congestion and pollution with the ridiculous 20 mph blanket ban, yet cannot say why there is a need for it at say 4 am or 11pm.

    "

    The old prejudices are the best.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    At least some people get it.

    "

    The four cars in the picture above are taking up as much space as three double decker buses, but only carrying five people.

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. Stickman
    Member

    Is Frank Ross being wilfully obtuse or is he playing some kind of devil's advocate role in this Twitter exchange? I genuinely have no idea what his alternative proposal or solution to congestion is.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/frankross06/status/709694927417024512

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    "Is Frank Ross being wilfully obtuse or is he playing some kind of devil's advocate role in this Twitter exchange?"

    Good question.

    All he seems to care about is the bus lane at Roseburn. If that stays will that be the end of his objections??

    (I realise that might be the end of a small section of segregated cycle lane - but a small price to pay for his full support for the rest of the route to Leith Walk??)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. HankChief
    Member

    To me it is the best headline for those opposing the scheme and on the face of it hard to counter - we are reallocating a bus lane for cycle use.

    I'm sure many of us would prefer to take a general lane away and leave behind the bus lane.

    As we've been trying to explain on twitter, the bus lane currently doesn't give much benefit to buses due to lack of queues at that point and regular parked cars (legal & illegal).

    We have previously discussed whether you could make the Balbirnie Place route into a safe and appealing one.

    http://www.chrispaton.co.uk/documents/TheimportanceoftheproposedRoseburntoHaymarketcycleway.pdf

    Give the lack of space at Haymarket Yards there is just no way to fit in a safe route to cross the tracks suitable for mass cycling. The pavements are well used and the frequent tram service means there is little you can do.

    It feels like a much bigger compromise to the aims of the project to use an unsafe cycling route than to the reallocate 500m of underused buslane.

    EDIT: Spokes have just pointed out that the Councillors did vote through the Bus Lane trial (despite objections) which reduced the effectiveness of the Bus Lanes. So they can't be that sacrosanct...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. crowriver
    Member

    "All he seems to care about is the bus lane at Roseburn. If that stays will that be the end of his objections??"

    No, because he hates cyclists. THEY are his bête noir.

    https://carsickglasgow.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/edinburgh-snp-appoint-anti-cycling-clown-as-council-group-leader/

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. Stickman
    Member

    Bus lanes are quantum phenomena: they both cause congestion and increase traffic flow at the same time. All dependent on the observer of course.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Your book is called Street Fight, and policy conflicts is obviously something you’ve thought a lot about. Do you think it’s likely we’ll see more of these types of policy fights?

    Yeah, I mean, I think every city is facing the same challenges and the same fight and I think we have to find ways to get to "yes," and provide new choices and make our streets safer — full stop.

    "

    http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/13/11208338/janette-sadik-khan-street-fight-book-nyc-transportation-technology

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. threefromleith
    Member

    Has anyone invited Frank Ross to show his supposed support for cycling by getting on a bike and coming to POP16? ;-)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. Stickman
    Member

    Or even just to do a cycling tour of his own ward?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. threefromleith
    Member

    Wonder if he'd agree (especially if it was during a busy period of the day)?

    Anyone local to his ward who knew their way around it and who'd be willing to ride him round and let him experience this for himself? Perhaps is he has young kids or grandkids he could have them cycle along too to see just how friendly and safe it is for people of all ages to ride on Edinburgh's 'exemplary' cycling infra?

    Posted 8 years ago #

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