CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
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Posted 8 years ago #
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I'm forever stopping off at that Tesco's and once one of the guys working there said I could bring my cycle inside. There are only two places you can chain your bike - a metal ring, and a lamp-post.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I suspect that Tesco HO doesn't know about this petition - and probably has general guidance to managers to avoid such things.
(But still worth complaining!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
I will ask them about it. They have zillions of cycling customers. It's at a very convenient spot with plenty of passing cycling traffic on three sides. When I'm commuting by bike I stop there most days.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Rosie: bike racks are due to be installed beside the cash machine soon.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Rosie Amazed that you were invited in with the bike Tesco is perhaps the the lest in tune retailer when it comes to the offer for those who shop with a bike - with perhaps the exception of Inverness, where cycle use was so high that bikes were fine brought in to the store and parked by the loading shelf next to the check outs. Oddly though they seemed to have no problem in one city about having a naturist shopping session to cater for a niche customer interest - but no cyclists shopping sessions where bikes can be parked at the check-outs....
One or two of the shops along the Glasgow Road seem to have reading difficulties, as their vehicles always appear to be parked in the bus lane when it is needed and in force at peak times.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just finally got round to emailing Marco Biagi - a bit late, sorry folks, but I did invite him to PoP as well!
Posted 8 years ago # -
or two of the shops along the Glasgow Road seem to have reading difficulties, as their vehicles always appear to be parked in the bus lane when it is needed and in force at peak times.
My Twitter exchange with Frank Ross raised this:
Initially he said he was concerned about parking/loading, then threw in the effect on bus lanes. I responded by saying that if he was worried about bus lanes then he'd try to enforce them rather than allow parking. His response? "Where will people park?"
As always, parking is the first, the last, the everything.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Where will people park?"
How about "Where it is legal and responsible to do so?"
Posted 8 years ago # -
I called in to the Tesco store and had a chat with one of the assistants, a young bloke who cycles himself.
It's the delivery that really bothers them.
As well as the petition there is a leaflet
"I oppose the proposed 2-way protected cycle track along busy Roseburn Terrace, West Coates and Haymarket Terrace.
I believe the track, marked in the solid red line below, will harm Roseburn businesses by preventing parking outside the shops for delivery vans and shoppers. The removal of off-peak parking and the westbound bus lane, along with the introduction of 24hr waiting restrictions with double red lines will severely reduce trade. The reduction of four levels of traffic to two will lead to additional congestion. The removal of the staggered crossing at Devon Place will make crossing the West Coates road more dangerous. Haymarket's businesses and taxi rank will suffer too.
However I do support the use of National Cycle Route 1 as an alternative. This quiet route along Balbirnie Place for cyclists travelling from Roseburn to Haymarket, is marked by the dashed red line below. In keeping with the Council's proposed network of "Quiet Routes", which aims to provide a pleasant and welcoming environment for all users, it is a far more suitable option, utilising existing off-road paths and low-traffic streets.
I believe it's a far better cycling route. It takes cyclists along Roseburn Place, the first part of Russell Road, along Balbirnine Place, alongside the tramline, then up Haymarket Yards. I acknowledge that it makes a 3 minute journey into a 4 minute journey, but I think it is a far more pleasant one. It also links directly into the Roseburn to Granton cycle path (in blue above). I note it involves cycling alongside tram tracks at Haymarket Yards, but there is virtually no other traffic here, and dealing with the tracks is a lot easier when there are no cars around."
No mention of the hideous slalom to get from Russell Road to Balbirnie Place.
So will email Mr Tesco.
Only about 10 people had signed.
Posted 8 years ago # -
https://m.facebook.com/KidsNotSuitsScotland/
"Bummer. I am organising a protest on Monday at 6pm at our local Roseburn Primary School. The Council will be inside, nice and warm trying to sell their mad cycle track scheme and I will be outside with any nutter who wants to join me, getting folk to sign the petition and dancing for the press. Now I hear Monday is set to be brass monkey weather. Standing in the snow with a placard. Who will join me?"
Expect a froth inducing story in the EEN on Tuesday then...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Is it the same person organizing the leaflets, online/Tesco petitions and this protest? Anyone know who he is? Might be worth going along to find out exactly why he's so against it.
EDIT: Not that it really matters I suppose. The council clearly knows why the existing NCN1 route isn't suitable or they would've used it.
If I had to guess I'd say he had it explained at a consultation, realised he couldn't convince the council staff and decided to create as big of a fuss as possible instead.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I realise that I know this guy who founded Kids Not Suits from years ago. He used to run various community projects for the council. He's 'old Labour' I suppose but knows very well how to put pressure on councillors, a seasoned campaigner.
I recognised him from the photo on the Kids Not Suits page. Have to say I'm a bit shocked that he's turned into such a reactionary, it's not what I would have anticipated. Maybe he has an axe to grind with various people on the council: presumably they cut his project off from funding some years ago.
He's always been a 'thorn in the side' type maverick but I never expected the anti-cyclist, keen motorist angle.
Just goes to show not only that Edinburgh is indeed a village but also that you never really know how folk will turn out sometimes!
Posted 8 years ago # -
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Kids Not Suits
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Posted 8 years ago # -
"a seasoned campaigner"
That makes sense, he certainly knows how to write convincingly. His petition presents the scheme as a few cyclists trying to shave 1 minute off their commute at the expense of local businesses. It is carefully worded to not be anti-cyclist and also completely reasonable (they already have a perfectly good route).
I can see people being misled into objecting if they don't look into any more detail than what is presented there. I say misled because I'm sure he knows the benefits to existing cyclists is just the tip of the iceberg for what a scheme like this could achieve. He must also know that the existing NCN1 route is nowhere near capable of supporting mass transit or convincing anyone that cycling is a convenient alternative to driving.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@crowriver, if it is the guy on the right in the picture then he used to crash at my flat in Glasgow on a Monday night in 1990. I cannot imagine him being against a cycling path then. I recall fondly a screening upstairs in ryrie's bar of the Edinburgh and Lothian video user's group. One film called Sausages (about frying some sausages in a pan) has stayed with me for 25 years. Very well intentioned sweet man.
Who knows what tomorrow brings?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@gembo, aye that's the fella. That would make sense as he was working in Glasgow part-time around then.
You're quite right about him, but that's what makes this petition and campaign difficult to understand. I can only assume his recent experiences with the council have changed his mentality somewhat.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just a reminder that the drop in session on this is on tomorrow (mon 18th jan) from 4-8pm at Roseburn primary school.
Posted 8 years ago # -
It's pretty clear that Edinburgh West LibDems are positioning themselves to oppose the plans (without coming out and saying it). From a leaflet that was posted through my door:
"Residents and shopkeepers have reacted with outrage at proposals to remove a bus lane to accommodate a new cycle path on the A8 from Roseburn.....The westbound lane would be removed at Wester Coates and bus passengers would need to be cross the cycle way to access the bus stop at Wester Coates.
Local Councillor Paul Edie said "Local traders have raised concerns about loading and locations of trade waste bins while residents have concerns about the loss of a bus lane and the impact on traffic flows"
Thought Paul Eadie supported PoP? And Alex Cole-Hamilton was an active travel supporter?
Really disappointed at this.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Thought Paul Eadie supported PoP? And Alex Cole-Hamilton was an active travel supporter?"
I suppose most politicians will "support" active travel, as long as it doesn't upset anyone. The minute it does, they oppose active travel! The exception being Greens of course.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I too am really disappointed by this. The Libdem Holyrood candidate does already cycles regularly and was the easiest to arrange a cycle tour with as we just need to coincide commutes.
The point I've made to both him and the SNP candidate is that they can make as many promises about future funding as they like but if this scheme doesn't get done right it will impact Active Travel in West Edinburgh for many years to come (they won't come back to fix it anytime soon). And the actions of their local councillor is not helping convince us that they/their party support this.
I hope as many people as can turn up to the consultation tomorrow, the Murrayfield Community Council on Wednesday, and fill in the formal consultation.
And it wouldn't harm to sign the petition either- assuming you've not already done it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Kids Not Suits" is now commenting on the EEN:
KidsNotSuits
And the Council is set to make it MUCH WORSE when it forces through cycle lanes from Roseburn to Haymarket, thus reducing the traffic on this arterial route in and out of Edinburgh from 4 lanes to 2. So in order to allow 12 cyclists an hour (no doubt in gas masks) to peddle from Murrayfield to Leith on the new cycle tracks they will create unparalleled levels of congestion. NO2 levels will climb and climb at peak commuting times. If you care come to the protest at Roseburn Primary School on Monday at 6pm. Even cyclists oppose this crazy cycle track- 60 have joined the 1,000 who have signed the petition against it. But have the Council done a traffic impact assessment on their planned "street improvements"? No they have not. If they did, they would not be peddling this madness. More at http://www.kidsnotsuits.co.uk1,000 signatures? The online one is currently standing at 69.
Posted 8 years ago # -
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@RoseburnBar: Don't forget, we've made Fyne Ale's Jarl a permanent fixture in the Roseburn! The perfect excuse to come down and... https://t.co/A2xaUMar63
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Posted 8 years ago # -
The locals are mobilising against this and this guy isn't helping with his misleading information. From the "Kids Not Suits" Facebook page:
Kids Not Suits
The proposed track will mean the reduction of four lanes of traffic to two, caused by the removal of half a carriageway and the westbound bus lane, leading to phenomenal congestion on this arterial route into the city. It will also wreck 26 Roseburn businesses by preventing parking outside the shops for delivery vans and customers. The plan to remove 16 parking spaces, with 4 left for loading only and double red lines everywhere else, will severely reduce trade. The removal of the staggered crossing islands will make crossing much more dangerous all along this main road. Haymarket’s businesses will suffer from being unable to take deliveries too.
Locals do support the use of National Cycle Route 1 as an alternative. This quiet route is along Balbirnie Place for cyclists travelling from Roseburn to Haymarket. In keeping with the Council’s proposed network of ‘Quiet Routes’, which aims to provide a pleasant and welcoming environment for all users, it is a far more suitable option, utilising existing off-road paths and low-traffic streets. Whilst it makes a 3- minute journey into a 4-minute journey, it is a far more pleasant one, which also links directly into the Roseburn to Granton cycle path (in blue above).
To sum up: “The Council’s new cycle track will remove parking that allows deliveries to shops. If goods can’t be delivered, they can’t be sold. It appears no Economic Impact Assessment Study has been carried out on the effect on the shops both at Roseburn - and at Haymarket - of the proposed street improvements.
I have road safety concerns too. The track involves removing crossing islands all along the main road. Also compressing 4 lanes of traffic into 2 on Roseburn Terrace whilst removing the Westbound bus lane. Making it harder to cross. At peak times traffic is very heavy. This morning’s tailback to turn right into Roseburn Street was 200 metres all the way back to Murrayfield Gardens, for about an hour. If the traffic is jammed up even further in tailbacks we get more pollution. This road already has the highest NO2 readings in the city. It appears no Traffic Impact Assessment study has been carried out either, on the environmental and road safety impact of the proposed cycle track.”
“The Council has carried out a study, called a “Preliminary Justification Report”. They claim the route will increase cycling traffic by 88%. But at present there are only 6 cyclists an hour using the route. So for the sake of 11 cyclists an hour, one every 5 minutes, they want to wipe out the businesses from Murrayfield to Haymarket. It’s nuts!”
“Even cyclists oppose the cycle track. We have 60 cyclists who are against this. The cyclists know that the National Cycle Route access ramps from Roseburn are there already- all that’s required is improved signage- we’re talking £1,000. That’s a fraction of the cost of the £6.3M that the new cycle track will take from hard-pressed Council coffers- money that could have been used to sort out the city’s notorious potholes, which make city cycling so hazardous.”
The shops at Roseburn stand to lose the most- they are up in arms and have each donated £10- £20 to cover the cost of several thousand glossy petition flyers. The shopkeepers have been asking their customers to sign the petition in the shop or sign on-line. They are united in knowing their businesses will suffer or close if the Council scheme gets the go-ahead. Also, residents all the way to Haymarket fear for the safety of their children, when they seek to cross, without traffic islands, what will be heavily congested road with fast-moving traffic. There are already frequent near-misses when traffic fails to stop at Roseburn’s red lights and the Council’s proposed Toucan crossings will only make matters worse. Locals are going round the doors getting neighbours to sign up.
The consultation itself has angered locals. The Council leaflets that were meant to be delivered to residents and shoppers in October never went out: the original consultation was due to close on the 7th January. It was only in December that Councillor Jeremy Balfour discovered this. The Council then had to extend the consultation deadline by a month and start delivering “revised” leaflets.
The leaflets are misleading, as well.
“What is astonishing is this: the option that our petition proposes, using National Cycle Route 1 instead, is nowhere acknowledged in the Council literature. It seems not to exist, in their eyes. But it does- it’s clearly marked on the Sustrans map. This is the Route that leads from John o’ Groats to Land’s End that takes cyclists through the heart of the city. Other cycle paths are acknowledged in the consultation literature- the Roseburn to Granton one, for example, shown in blue on the petition map. But not National Cycle Route 1. It’s as if Council cycling staff don’t want locals to realise it would work just as well. Either that, or they have never cycled round the area themselves.”Posted 8 years ago # -
I'm a local - living in Coltbridge- can show face and drag along my non-cycling partner for balance.
I know tonight there is a drop-in session (thanks daisydaisy) - are there any other significant dates regarding meetings etc?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"leading to phenomenal congestion on this arterial route into the city"
That'll be the one that includes 'Scotland's most polluted street'.
Perhaps a few drivers will consider alternative routes/modes of transport(??)
Posted 8 years ago # -
I reckon that posting by Kids Not Suits belongs in the Cognitive Dissonance thread.
So, creating facilities to encourage cycling instead of car driving will increase congestion and pollution. Who knew?
Posted 8 years ago # -
They seem to have forgotten that there is a perfectly good alternative route for cars to use to get to Haymarket too in the form of the A90 so by their logic this road is surplus to requirements.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Where did he get the six cyclists an hour figure from? His own observations?
Posted 8 years ago # -
You're guessing he counted 1 cyclist in the 10 minutes it took him to cross the road and extrapolated from there.
Posted 8 years ago #
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