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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    Interesting that PG has finally mentioned the Actiove travel forum. Contrary to his assumptions, it is not 'stacked with cyclists'. if anything, it was created to try and give non-cycling interests more of a voice. but I'm not at all sure this has been successful as (1) such interests are not well organised/;articulated and (2) once anyone rational looks at the case for cycling, they become converts in theory, even if not choosing to cycle themselves.

    he's not yet discovered ATAP though, I think.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. daisydaisy
    Member

    Has the Active Travel Forum been unfairly stacked with rational people?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. LivM
    Member

    My parents recently had a visit (not Edinburgh) from a local councillor to discuss various issues in the glen they live in (gritting, broadband, road maintenance etc.) An interesting point that the councillor made was that if you want to be taken seriously by a local council then it's best if you can be part of a Group. I.e. "Mr D from Glengarry" gets taken much less seriously than "the Glengarry Residents' Association" (even if such Association is an informal one rather than a big fancypants group).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    "However the recent Holyrood elections indicate that 'Edinburgh votes in interesting ways'."

    Yes, but less incentive for the anti-Nat/unionist vote to coalesce around a single candidate in multi-seat wards.

    Unlikely the SNP can achieve a majority administration on their own, so who could partner them? Tories are presumably out. LibDems might not have enough councillors. So 5 more years of SNP-Labour, or might the Greens hold the balance of power? That would be a good outcome for cycling vs the Frank Ross Falange.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. HankChief
    Member

    It was a lively night last night.

    I did write a long post about it last night on the sleeper heading south but the t'interweb cut out in deepest Lanarkshire - fingers crossed it more reliable on the East Coast.

    Thank you to those who came along and made it clear that there is community support for the scheme and it's benefits.

    We weren't going to convince everyone in the room but at least we announced the website and showed the council officer & councillors our views.

    I'm not sure that format is the best for a reasoned debate.

    The thing that struck me and I tried to convey in one of my points was that whilst a lot of people in the room didn't want the cycle path, they all weren't happy with the status quo and wanted thier favorite to get more of the limited space between the shop fronts. Be it pavement, parking, car lanes, bus priority, space for lorries, right turn lane, ambulance priority etc.

    We can't have it all and (even taking the cyclists away) it doesn't work just now, so let's have a reasoned debate about what can be done for our Roseburn.

    I did love the irony that PG had complained about the poor consulate on the official proposals and then sets up a pseudo consultation on his fag packet ones.

    Last night he was already dropping several of the ideas as his rather strange grouping of 'love it, like it or don't mind' were only in the 60% range, as if you could pick & choose which bits to do.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. Rosie
    Member

    Guy has been plastering at my house. Complains about getting across town from Fairmilehead as streets are clogged up with parked cars and the drivers then catching buses into town.

    He was having problems parking his van outside my flat as the garage across the road treat the street as a forecourt.

    Asked me about cycle routes, and the Roseburn Terrace route. Was totally in favour of it. Said the city should be closed to cars, and how busy the Meadows were now with cyclists, and it just needed that big step - which is what Stickman was saying at the Murrayfield CC meeting. Could see the rationale for encouraging cycling.

    I assume tradesmen will be opposed as they have to get about in vehicles, so glad to have my prejudices confounded.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "I assume tradesmen will be opposed as they have to get about in vehicles"

    To some extent it's the 'everyone should be banned except me' view.

    BUT

    Far more legitimate for vehicles 'needed' as part of work to be allowed/able to get around than people just driving to/from work (usually by themselves) twice a day.

    Maybe it's time for Congestion Charging to be 'talked about' again. Will even the Greens dare propose it for next year's election?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Tradesmen I think have a legitemate role to play in a functioning, healthy city. And carrying a lot of ladders, power tools, parts etc. is heavy - many of them effectively are carting around mobile workshops. Equally some of them work out of the boot of an old Ford Fiesta. When we had our sash windows done, the painter came and went by bike; the other workers had dropped the paint off for him and he just carried his brushes and rags.

    However it should not be too difficult to fit a collapsible luggage trolley in the van/Fiesta to move things around the corner to the work site from the nearest free parking spot.

    Scottish Gas told me that they can double park and park in residents bays and on double yellows pretty much with impunity as they are registered as emergency responders. This goes for doing a domestic boiler replacement...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. Rosie
    Member

    Oh, in my benevolent dictatorship tradesmen would be allowed special dispensations.

    It's fascinating in Venice seeing how people manage with deliveries, bringing washing machines and the like, when everything has to be done with boats and winches up to second floor flats.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Rosie
    Member

    Also, guys normally park, unload and then move the van, with occasional words with neighbours about blocking access.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    "... Combine it with an app which "books" you a parking space (or tells you there aren't any) as you're enroute to the city, ban people without a booked space or a legitimate need to load ..."

    http://www.citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15545&page=2#post-221771

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. Roibeard
    Member

    Word is that this won't come before the committee until August at the earliest, so looks like it's been effectively stalled, hopefully only temporarily.

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. Stickman
    Member

    @Roibeard

    Yes, that's what Phil Smart was saying as well. He also said that the TRO process would take at least nine months to go through. No doubt it will face further objections and opposition. Next council elections could scupper the whole thing.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    "the TRO process would take at least nine months"

    That's quick...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. Big_Smoke
    Member

    Men/women wanting to reach for the stars of progress are always dragged back down to earth by neanderthals who want to hit things with a rock.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. Stickman
    Member

    Latest update from the Visionary.

    His nemesis is no longer Spokes. He has moved on to the "shadowy" Active Travel Forum.

    Incidentally, one of the most recent commenters on his latest petition is one of the chief protagonists in the previous EEN coverage. Wonder how many others have signed (at least) twice?


    Protest at City Chambers 7th June to coincide with Transport Committee meeting; launch of Roseburn Vision

    As you know, our consultation ends 12 noon tomorrow; at 1pm we shall meet at Vigo’s in Roseburn to analyse the feedback (198 responses so far at survey monkey at http://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/roseburn - if you have not fed back yet, please do so) . By 9pm Sunday night we shall have a revised final scheme which we are going to present to Cllr Frank Ross (Roseburn ward Cllr and Deputy Leader of the Council) and Cllr McVay (Vice-Convener of the Transport Committee).

    In order to launch our final version of our Vision to the world and “formalise” our handing over of the Vision for costing, we are going to present every 1 of the 15 Transport Cllrs, as they make their way into the Committee Meeting Room for their next Transport Committee meeting, at 10am on Tuesday 7th June, a copy of The Roseburn Vision.

    We are not an agenda item, we are have no rights to address the Committee formally. That will have to wait for the autumn. (See Tuesday’s agenda here).

    What we are doing is capitalising on the opportunity to present our pitch to Committee. After we have presented each Cllr with the Vision, we shall assemble outside the City Chambers, the main quad, for a photo-opportunity, and we hope the media will come and report upon our Vision Launch and a 3-minute spiel from me about the shadowy “Edinburgh Active Travel Forum” which it seems, is the author of all our woes. Anyone else who wants to say a few words would be welcome. If you have a placard, that would be great, if not I shall bring materials (cardboard and felt pen) and you can knock one up on the spot.

    This protest –cum- Roseburn Vision- launch is meant to send a strong signal to the citizens of Edinburgh and to our elected members that we mean to see the commitment from the SNP Group honoured. To this end, I will be handing a copy of the Roseburn Vision to any Tom, Dick or Harry that shows their face, be they politician, honest citizen or scribbler from the press.

    I mean to get the Vision properly published on nice paper by Copymade at Haymarket on the Monday, which will cost another £60. I have therefore increased the sum we seek to raise at https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/TheRoseburnVision by £60 to £320. If you would like to contribute towards the costs, it will allow me to eat this month.

    Let me know if you will attend our protest this Tuesday. We shall assemble initially at 9.15am at the City Chambers on the High Street and then proceed to the Committee meeting room and hand our Roseburn Vision document to each of the 15 Councillors as they enter for the meeting. When the meeting commences at 10am, we shall all get up and walk out as a silent protest to the fact the Council has dithered on our scheme for too long.

    We shall then assemble outside the Chambers, in the quad, for 15 minutes from 10.10am- and we hope the press will attend to record our protest. Then we can all go home at 10.30am

    I have arranged some transport for those who need help getting to the Chambers – Kadir and I can take 8 people from Roseburn- if you want a lift, or to help in the transport of others, let me know- we are assembling at 8.55am at the Murrayfield Bar at the corner of Roseburn Terrace/Roseburn Gardens.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. Roibeard
    Member

    I have arranged some transport for those who need help getting to the Chambers – Kadir and I can take 8 people from Roseburn- if you want a lift, or to help in the transport of others, let me know.

    I suppose cycling is out of the question...

    ;-)

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. Morningsider
    Member

    Do shadowy organisations normally publish their papers online?

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20016/roads_travel_and_parking/1155/active_travel_forums_for_walking_and_cycling

    Also, I doubt council officials would allow some random member of the public to hand out papers to councillors on their way into a committee meeting room.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. "This protest –cum- Roseburn Vision"

    "to any Tom, Dick or Harry that shows their face"

    He might want to change that if he wants to get through everyone's firewall.

    "the shadowy “Edinburgh Active Travel Forum” which it seems, is the author of all our woes"

    Where can I join? These folk sound fun!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. Rosie
    Member

    So is it the Illuminati or the Freemasons who are behind the Edinburgh Active Travel Forum?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. Stickman
    Member

    Rosie: come on, it's clearly the shape-changing lizards. Has David Icke signed the petition yet?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. Stickman
    Member

    I am very disappointed to learn that local cycle campaigners are in the pocket of RBS Chief Executive Ross McEwan but I am pleased to know that (according to PG) RBS itself is campaigning in favour of the cycle route:

    http://www.kidsnotsuits.com/stop-the-west-coates-cycle-track-petition-to-edinburgh-council/

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. Rosie
    Member

    "Local man Henry Whaley of the Royal Bank of Scotland Bicycle User Group set up a counter-petition to our one back in January 2016. It closed with 800 signatures at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/support-roseburn-west-coates-protected-cycle-route The petition is being used by Cllr Hinds to cancel out our complaints.

    The RBS Bicycle User Group are now running their own Roseburn community website http://www.roseburncycleroute.org.uk setting out the arguments in favour of the Council scheme. They have panned our Roseburn Vision : read their critique of our scheme here

    The Bank has, apparently, come out against our vision, for we must assume that Henry, as its representative at the Edinburgh Active Travel Forum (see below), is empowered by Ross McEwan, Chief Exec at the Bank, to plunge it into the midst of this contretemps. If you are an RBS customer, and cannot understand why the Bank opposes our scheme, please get in touch here ."

    This kind of paranoia usually finds "Zionists" behind all the ills of the world. I must put together a counter conspiracy theory that the antis are funded by the car lobby.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. Rosie
    Member

    No RBS bank transfers have come my way, sadly.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. Oh my word, does the paranoia know no bounds? He seriously thinks that RBS is, as a corporation right up to the chief exec, concerned about the Roseburn corridor, to the extent that it sets up, with the council, an Active Travel Forum, which seeks to destroy communities by making it easier and more pleasant to walk and cycle about?

    Have I got that right?

    Someone, please, get this man some help!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. neddie
    Member

    All for the sake of a few loading bays...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I noticed something pinned up on the door of the tumbledown building in Roseburn Park. I didn't stop to gander, but got a good look as I slowed and I think it was Mr Suits' "vision" masquerading as some sort of official plan.

    And as for trying to slander someone because of who they happen to work for? Pathetic.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. wingpig
    Member

    His language is heading in a very distinct direction...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    "we must assume that Henry, as its representative at the Edinburgh Active Travel Forum (see below), is empowered by Ross McEwan, Chief Exec at the Bank"

    I fear the author of those words has drifted into the realm of the unwell.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. The Boy
    Member

    fwiw, I don't think he *does* think RBS are campagning on behalf of the cycle route. I believe what he is trying to do is drag them into this by encouraging people to bombard the CEO with complaints, and thus have the bank threaten their staff into silence as a result of tarnishing the company's name.

    It's a rather nefarious development on the part of him, his 'movement' and the local shop owners who believe that my local community is, in fact, theirs. And any shop owners in Roseburn who continue to have his signs up in their windows will no longer receive my custom. I will also be asking my mum to do same - having a posh dog shop local plays well with her tendency to spoiling out little 'un.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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