Anything else?
A toxic mix of a genuine desire to see a better world, paranoia and narcissism?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL
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Posted 7 years ago #
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Was the entire protest 6 people?
Should have told the "shadowy activetravelforum" I'm sure they'd have turned up, scientology stylee, with black suits, black bicycles and record the whole thing with over sized helmet cameras in a passive aggressive manner.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"The powerpoint paints a very twisted take on our objections on slides 26-30; the Active Travel Forum is being fed drivel."
I don't see what he's complaining about.
@ih belief that because he found a way to make cycling work for him, everyone else would if they wanted to.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Protest" was filmed by STV. Will be interesting to see if they consider 6 people newsworthy.
Posted 7 years ago # -
There was chat up thread about boycotting the shops of Roseburn Terrace. Rosie is right - please don't.
There are over 50 businesses on that row and it's important that they thrive and our community continues. Some are more anti the scheme than others, so let's not tar them all with the same brush.
There was a comment at MCC that they haven't seen any 'cyclists' shopping.
Given we don't all walk around with high - viz & a h****t on all the time, perhaps they haven't noticed that 'cyclists' are just normal people who make some of their journeys by bike.
So if you are in the area (regardless of transport mode to get there) do pop in and mention your support of the scheme. You can even ask if they have seen the evidence on the Roseburncycleroute website.
Please ask your friends and family to do the same.
I appreciate this may be difficult but we aren't going to win anyone round by creating divisions. Let's leave that to PG.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Oh. And another thing. Regardless of what he does or says, it really isn't about me vs him or any other such artificial divide.
It's about getting the best outcome for our community now and in the future, so let's keep the debate as what we want to see and how the benefits will help us all.
Please do take the time to tell your councilors how you feel about the proposals or how you felt starting (back) cycling.
They need to understand the 'journey' that 'ordinary' people like you go through when trying to make those first steps into cycling.
We've said many times, this scheme isn't for 'us', it's for encouraging many more people onto bikes.
If you're feeling very brave, why not visit one of your councillors surgeries and meet them face to face.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Well said, Hankchief. I also feel that speculation about mental health issues are a direction we do not want this discussion to follow - that's no better than doxxing in my view. I'd actually support a bit of judicious editing by chdot on this point.
We should remember this is a publicly viewable forum.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"I also feel that speculation about mental health issues are a direction we do not want this discussion to follow"
I think that is a reasonable 'rule'.
"I'd actually support a bit of judicious editing by chdot on this point."
There may have been some 'robust' opinions/wording, but, under the circumstances, I don't think anyone here has been too out of line (wherever that is).
As has been said before this forum is remarkably civil 99.9% of the time, I'm sure everyone wants that to continue and will be aware of many sensitivities.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"I also feel that speculation about mental health issues are a direction we do not want this discussion to follow"
Fair point, mea culpa. I do believe what I posted, but will edit once at a proper computer.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Ah. Posts are too old to edit now. Feel quite bad about that now - sticking to the facts in question from now on!
Is there a definition of what constitutes 'loading' for a Loading Bay anywhere? Not just for this location, but riding home through Gorgie, there are constantly cars parked up for people nipping into shops, or just as commonly the delivery drivers for various takeaways.
Hang on, will start a new thread as I had another thought....
Posted 7 years ago # -
Feel quite bad about that now - sticking to the facts in question from now on!
I wouldn't worry about it. Concern along those lines has already been expressed a few dozen pages ago (this thread moves so fast). Though indeed it would be better to stick to the facts online.
I have never heard of doxxing though. This forum is educational.
Posted 7 years ago # -
And now I feel bad about missing the previously raised concern - this thread is a minefield.
Roseburn was strangely busy this morning. No-one parked in the westbound loading bays, but all of the traffic, buses included, sitting far right. Meant I could scoot up the inside easily enough, in roughly twice the space that would be required / suggested for a segregated cycle 'track'.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I don't think anyone should feel bad, given the malicious, deceptive, manipulative tactics being employed by KNS. However, I agree with Hankchief that it's more astute and frankly more agreeable to stick to making a positive case for the proposed Council sponsored scheme. Don't sink to the level of the opposition.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I completely applaud Hankchief's words on here given what's been said. If I can play any small part it will be stopping and behaving impeccably while buying things from the shops when I go that way, with whatever indication I can muster than I am a cyclist (panniers is about it)....
Posted 7 years ago # -
There's an approving piece about KNS in this week's Private Eye. It doesn't reference Roseburn.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Is it written by Dave Cohen?
Posted 7 years ago # -
In Private Eye you can never tell. All the contributions are anonymous...
Posted 7 years ago # -
There's an approving piece about KNS in this week's Private Eye.
Sometimes easy to forget in our increasingly black and white world (SNP bad, Tories evil, LibDems duplicitous, Labour useless) that people can be right about one thing but (very) wrong about others...
Having said that, I know nowt about KNS so he could be wrong about that too.
Posted 7 years ago # -
There was one solitary car (illegally) parked in the loading bay when I went along Roseburn westbound this AM. The quietest I've ever seen it commuting!
The HT/WC bus lane is just appalling now. It must be impossible to ride along it safely in secondary these days. I was passed by several taxis who didn't bother moving into the "bus lane" after passing, presumably because of the state of the road - the lane was clear from H Yards all the way to Roseburn. Again, a first!
Posted 7 years ago # -
One car and one van in the loading bays when I went past this morning. Necessitating me once again moving into the main traffic lane, holding up a couple of taxis behind me. Whereas if I'd been in a segregated lane...
More 'loading' parking on St John's - the loading in this case seemingly bacon rolls from a café near Hart's.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Yesterday evening was the first time in ages when there were no cars stopped on Rosebur Terrace. The presence of a traffic warden was coincidental I'm sure. This morning there was a van stopped in the westbound lane.
And the Haymarket Terrace bus lane is pointless. North side blocked by the taxi rank and people parked outside the shops (Grange Property's little smart car is almost always there). South side is blocked by people parking outside the office building.
St John's Road loading restrictions are almost universally ignored.
Posted 7 years ago # -
This evening there were six cars stopped in the westbound lane. One of them was facing the wrong way. There was a van loading eastbound.
At Haymarket Terrace there was a car stopped in the westbound bus lane. Several cars in the east bound one, including as usual the Grange Property car.
Yep, that cycle lane would be an absolute disaster for traffic.
Posted 7 years ago # -
One of "our" guys was standing on Kew Terrace this morning with a notebook, presumably noting traffic? He would have got good bike numbers - in the 40 seconds I was stopped at Roseburn Street 6 bikes went past on to Roseburn Terrace.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
As Scotland grapples with how to use its travel budget, and I find myself deeper embroiled in Edinburgh’s Roseburn cycleway debate, I decided to see how different things could be in a place that’s committed to getting people out of their cars
...
Meanwhile, at home, things could hardly be more different. Edinburgh’s embroiled in a cycling-infrastructure war. A planned £9 million cycleway between Roseburn and Leith has shop-keepers petitioning against the track for fear of an impact on profits. Navigating your way along Scotland’s most polluted stretch of road, past community shops flanked with cars and their anti-cycleway posters, is a stark contrast to somewhere that’s enveloped active travel in both planning and attitude. At home, the undercurrent of hostility towards the two-wheelers is palpable. Having spent a week traversing the city without so much as a tut from anyone has been a welcome break from the heckling. It’s going to be especially hard to come back to a place that would rather their community was a car park, and actively campaigns against you being there.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
"In Copenhagen, planners respond to desire lines – if the cyclists find a better, more efficient way to go, the planners respond. In Edinburgh, just last month, the council installed a bin in the middle of one of these meander paths on an arterial route through the west of the city. They used blockade as a deterrent. Instead of adding an extra two metres of cycle track, they’ve committed to the paying for waste disposal for the foreseeable future. The contrast in attitudes to citizens is clear – at home they tell us how to use our roads, and here they listen to the people."
Hmm - well here they may "listen to the people" as well - the ones who drive, and the ones who say their businesses are dependent on them driving.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Another well intentioned, if somewhat naive piece from Ms Moyes. Seems she can't quite understand why Copenhagen and Edinburgh are so different. Some enquiry into the long history of political and environmental activism in Copenhagen might have been a start. The bike lanes did not come from nowhere, by magic. I see from Twitter she visited Christiania, but seemingly has no idea of its significance to Copenhagen's political culture, and for cycling. Good to see her prior online spat hasn't put her off writing about cycling though.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@crowriver:
Can you imagine the reaction if a Christiania-style group turned up at Murrayfield Community Council meeting? HankChief's calm, polite and reasonable comments are greeted with outrage as it is...
Posted 7 years ago # -
@crowriver, I think you're maybe being a little unduly harsh on this particular article. Her previous one was nonsense - this one is much more interesting (and bang on my experiences in Copenhagen), and likely more accessible, and therefore read, and taken in, than a dry political background piece (which is also more likely to get people thinking, "Oh well, our politicians will never do that, so we might as well not bother").
I'm also happy to see what is a generally positive article on cycling in the national (small 'n') press!
Posted 7 years ago # -
Hah! Yeah I can just picture it. The rammy would be excellent though.
I have this sense that today's 'millennials' really don't understand quite how conservative the UK is (Scotland no exception), and just what a profound effect the Thatcherite revolution has had on our politics and our culture. One can argue that there's long been a powerful strand of individualistic competitiveness (pre-dating Thatcher), and this is partly alluded to in Moyes' piece by comparison to the 'civilised' Danes...
Also there's not much insight in Moyes' piece that Copenhagen is a bit exceptional in the Danish context too: in much of Denmark cycling provision is not on a par with places like the Netherlands, for example.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Wilmington's Cow, granted it is nice to see a 'cycling-positive' story in an SNP leaning publication. Don't get me wrong, the questions she asks are pertinent. I think the incomprehension of why Copenhagen and Edinburgh are very different is telling, though.
Yes, we've all felt similarly I'm sure. Some of 'us' even campaign on these issues, and that has been going on for 30-odd years in this city! Yet despite real progress over that time for cycling, the ease of cycling in places like Copenhagen, Netherlands, much of northern Germany, etc. seems like a distant dream. Why? Rosie has an insight into this: most politicians are just not listening to 'us'. They're listening to motorists' concerns instead.
Even as policies and plans are drawn up by politicians and officials, at long last to reduce car dependence, and make Edinburgh a more cyclist and pedestrian friendly place, reactionary defenders of the status quo seize the agenda and politicians ultimately cave in under pressure.
We've seen this with the congestion charge; trams; bus lane enforcement cameras; Leith Walk; George Street; Sunday parking; and now Roseburn/Haymarket. Is it simply about a lack of sufficient political will? Poor leadership? Or is it just that there's an influential section of the population which is apparently dead set against any infringement of their privileges as drivers?
Posted 7 years ago #
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