CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
"You're both right of course, but in a world of first past the post politics (even if Scotland has tweaked that) it doesn't matter what the turnout is, you only count those who bother to cast."
Except that this wasn't a referendum, or even a survey. It was a consultation :-)
Sorry, I'm having a day of not explaining myself well.
I realise it wasn't a vote (would be interesting if major public works were decided that way!), but I'm thinking more of the mentality of just taking the bare percentages of a result and using those to extrapolate. As HC says, you can't/shouldn't actually do that, but there's a mindset created by FPTP that means people apply that even if it's not an actual vote.
So I expect Mr Roseburn to basically state that the response proves 'the people of Roseburn' don't want the cyclepath. I was just trying to provide some logic to the next step from Mr Roseburn in response to the direct question upthread of how he'll interpret the results.
I may have just muddied things even further.
The Council have gone to a lot of effort to come up with the initial plans. They wouldn't have done this if they didn't think it was a good idea.
In my opinion, the consulatation was to ensure that they hadn't missed anything in the detail and ensure that they were heading in the right direction.
This consultation feedback highlighted that there was widespread support for the plans but with specific concerns in the Roseburn area around parking/loading and floating bus stops.
They have addressed those concerns within the revised Option A, so everyone should be happy.
I fear this is not the case though...
And it wasn't any sort of vote/survey under a First Past The Post system; it was plurality, if anything, on a tiny turnout.
Minutes from the last MCC meeting.
http://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/inc/retrieve_file.php?id=223
I WASN'T SAYING IT WAS A VOTE, BUT THAT THE FPTP SYSTEM CREATES A MINDSET THAT I SUSPECT MR ROSEBURN WILL USE TO BACK UP HIS ASSERTION THAT ALL OF ROSEBURN IS AGAINST THE IDEA!!!!
I'm going for a lie down.
From minutes
"
TROs will be required and take a minimum of 9 months, but could take a year
if more detailed design is required.
"
From the minutes
" A local resident and cyclist, Henry Whaley, referred the meeting to a new website which has been established by a group of local people – http://www.roseburncycleroute.org.uk – which takes an evidence based approach to the proposed cycle route and seeks to explore what benefits there would be for Roseburn, its community and its shops.
R Smart expressed the view that the Council’s scheme is ill conceived and should be redone.
A number of those present expressed the view that the scheme is not suitable for the restricted space available and comparisons with schemes in European cities and America are not appropriate."
So there you have it in a nutshell, fingers in ears, "la, la, la, I can't hear you." We don't care what you say or what evidence you adduce, we don't want your freaking cycle track here.
@ih, this is what happens wherever a piece of infrastructure goes in that causes motorists to have to alter the fixed mindset that they should be able to park almost anywhere (if reasonable/ where they like if unreasonable).
Check out the Walthamstow village stuff.
We need to push to get this built so that it is not done any with when the regime change comes next year.
We have a big ally in councillor burns, councillor hinds, the new director of place, the council cycling team. All the pieces in place if it can be built now.
@Gembo " Check out the Walthamstow village stuff."
Yes, I've been to take a look, and very pleasant it is, with lots of bikes, café culture, nice shops etc, although a friend who lives in Waltham Forest says it was pretty gentrified before the mini-Holland stuff went in. Bet it's a lot more liveable now though.
On Roseburn, I alternate between wild optimism and the other one. It's the speed (lack of) that gets me. With the decision in Nov 16 and the TRO taking a year, we'll be well into the new regime by then, and the unthinking opponents know that.
I really feel that MCC isn't fulfilling it's remit properly as they are so clearly biased to reject anything and are not representing accurately the breadth of opinion across Murrayfield.
There are two genuine objections, and all the rest is destructive and delaying froth. They are, parking; the "right" to park anywhere, and a visceral hatred of "cyclists". Look at the minutes; when someone speaks in favour, they are described as a "cyclist", you can virtually hear them spitting on the floor when they say it. With the reinstatement of loading on the north side that just leaves the visceral hatred, and I'm not sure how we counter that.
Yes, and when someone speaks against, they are "a member of the public". Nice bit of out group prejudice there, identifying opponents as "cyclists" (who of course are members of the public too).
Big campaign against the infrasturucture in Walthamstow village of course
The agenda for tomorrow's public meeting has been announced.
Please do attend if impacted.
Agenda- PUBLIC MEETING - COUNCIL CYCLE TRACK
MURRAYFIELD PARISH CHURCH HALL Tuesday 2nd August 7pm-9.15pm
Chairperson: John Yellowlees, Murrayfield Community Council Chair
Attending: Vice-convener of Transport, Cllr Adam McVey (SNP), Local ward Cllrs Jeremy Balfour and Frank Ross, City Centre Cllrs Joanna Mowat (Con) and Alasdair Rankin (SNP) and other Transport Cllrs Nick Cook (Con), Gavin Barrie (SNP) and Bill Henderson (SNP). Maybe: Nigel Bagshaw (Green).
Apologies: Cllrs Paul Edie; Robert Aldridge; Karen Doran; Karen Keil; Lesley Hinds; Cathy Fullerton; Michelle Thomson MP
1. Welcome from John Yellowlees
2. Phil Noble, City Council Senior Cycling Officer will present an update of current Council plans, followed by Q&A [to 7.30]
3. The Roseburn Vision and why it’s been proposed- by Pete Gregson, local cyclist- followed by Q&A [to 8.10]
4. Jeff from Donaldsons Area Amenity Association- in favour of the track but not in its current form [to 8.20]
5. Sheena Kelman of the Wester Coates Amenity Society- speaking against the scheme [to 8.30]
6. George Rendall of Art et Facts – speaking on the impact on traders [to 8.40]
7. Adam Shepherd and Henry Whaley of Roseburn Cycle Route support group – speaking in favour of the Council scheme followed by Q&A [to 8.55]
8. David Spaven of Living Streets Edinburgh to present their view [to 9.05]
9. A politician - to say a few words in favour of the Council scheme [to 9.10]
10. Jeremy Balfour saying a few words about his view opposing the track [to 9.15]
Who's doing the live Twitter update?
#Cycle4Roseburn
Good idea. Any takers?
I'll do the Twitter. Will mean I have to bite my tongue, which is probably best.
a visceral hatred of "cyclists".
Well, if the agenda is verbatim:
3. The Roseburn Vision and why it’s been proposed- by Pete Gregson, local cyclist- followed by Q&A
Hope people are prepared for a 40 minute Gish Gallop by PG.
Odd that PG has been given 40 minutes while Phil Noble has less than 30.
Not even 30 minutes, there's a welcome at 7pm. More like 20 minutes.
Maybe if anyone attends this stitch up, they could loudly point out this clear bias?
@ac - That is the whole purpose of him calling the meeting...
The Consultation ended in February and the Council went away to consider the responses. Not satisfied with leaving them to adjust the proposals in light of the legitimate concerns, he gets his pen out and draws some lines on a map in May.
The council having spent a lot of time developing the initial plans and responding to the consultation findings don't spend much/any time looking at his drawings, so he now calls the public meeting so he can have the limelight on his ideas.
I note that he invited all members of the Transport & Environment Committee, although not all can attend.
It basically trying to get his plans considered by the back door. At the actual TEC meeting you get a detailed briefing / recommendation from Council Officers and 10 mins max for each side to state their case.
I wonder what ideas on running our city he wants to share with us next time...
Hopefully someone will remind Jeremy Balfour and Nick Cook that they stood for Holyrood on a manifesto which included a commitment to a segregated cycle route in each city in Scotland.
And perhaps remind the SNP councillors of their government's goal/target/aspiration of increasing cycling.
Or point out to the Roseburn businesses that current parking restrictions are universally ignored.
Am I remembering correctly that the council/SG has guidelines which rule out a single stage crossing of a four lane road?
I wonder how much of his allotted time PG is going to be willing to allow for cross examination. I'm guessing there will be more questions than answers after his presentation.
Local Transport Note 2/95: The Design of Pedestrian Crossings states (Section 5.2) that staggered signal-controlled crossings should be used for roads with a carriageway width of 15m+, and should be considered for roads with a carriageway width of 11m+.
Great, Thanks Morningsider.
What a night it is going to be I am sorely tempted to attend.
Which pub shall we meet at after?
Roseburn Bar has The Vision poster in their window. I'm sure they'd appreciate some cyclist custom.
I would offer to pay the publican' s parking and buy a pint if he takes down the poster for the duration. FFS no one drives to a pub anymore surely?
I was going to suggest the Bothy at Murrayfield Hotel, but as tonight is about building bridges, let's go for the Roseburn Bar.
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