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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "

    It obliges choices as to what kind of city its citizens and politicians want, with what balance of public benefits and private freedoms and for whom

    "

    Indeed.

    For 'us' it seems like a straightforward choice - NOT that it ought to get to simple binary options.

    For Roseburn traders, I think it's quite reasonable that CEC should understand their concerns and factor them in, but also make it clear that business owners individually or collectively can't have a veto.

    Additionally it would be helpful if they could actually say why any of the proposed measures would (possibly) 'force them out of business'.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. Stickman
    Member

    Write-up of the meeting from the chief opponent:

    https://www.change.org/p/city-of-edinburgh-council-petition-against-the-west-coates-cycle-track-in-favour-of-national-cycle-route-1-re-opened/u/17493656

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    "

    I must be honest and say that most were in favour of the Roseburn Vision. Even though Spokes had a few evangelists present they were outnumbered by the many residents who thought the scheme ill-conceived.

    "

    Aye honesty is everything...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. ih
    Member

    Speaking of honesty, does anyone actually believe his figures for the number of people who've signed his petition? There is evidence that the numbers are likely to have been manipulated; first, in his original online petition I noticed several names that were duplicated, with the Roseburn Café owner (Mr Kavir iirc) signing 3 times and that was him, his family signed in addition, and second we know from his own fb page that he has no qualms about getting Roseburn folk to sign up to an American petition and give their address with an American zip code. I imagine no one ever checks these petitions so he could simply sign for everyone on the electoral roll.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    One Week Ago:

    "I suspect they'll hone in on the results for EH12 5* & 6*, which are both pretty much opposed to the route (especially through Roseburn itself).

    This will demonstrate that the council wishes to ignore the needs and calls of the 'local' population, in favour of those who merely pass through (ignoring the fact that it's the locals who seek to benefit the most from this change, but that's by the by and argued ad nauseum)."

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. Stickman
    Member

    You're a very wise man :-)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. LivM
    Member

    Nice to see that the Community Council notice board in Roseburn has a couple of pages up Pro cycle path and nothing anti at the moment.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. SRD
    Moderator

    one thing I wanted to ask PG - why is it okay for people west of the route to want to use it to get to work or shops in the city centre, but not for those east of it to use it to get to work in the west?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. Frenchy
    Member

    I spoke to a councillor last night - they "have a feeling" that the administration will go with option B.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. HankChief
    Member

    Can I make a plea that everyone takes the time to contact their local councillors and makes sure that your views on the proposals are heard.

    We have 3 weeks until the decision is made and we have to ensure that a rational decision is made and isn't swamped out by overblown legitimate concerns or downright lies/prejudices being set out against it.

    There is lots of info on the Roseburn Website but remember the scheme is much bigger than just that section.

    This is Edinburgh's first attempt at a high quality segregated route so it's success (or otherwise) will set the tone for future plans.

    Councillor details can be found here. Writing is good but face to face is better.

    Thank you

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Lorries, vans and buses face being banned from the most polluted streets in Scotland by the end of the decade.

    Transport minister Humza Yousaf announced the move yesterday as part of a drive to clean up the air quality in the worst affected areas of the country.

    There are already about 200 low emissions zones (LEZs) in place across Europe and Mr Yousaf set out a timetable that would see similar schemes established in Scotland by the end of 2020.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/lorries-vans-and-buses-face-ban-from-polluted-streets-1-4197787

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Edinburgh's illconceived and unpopular 20mph blanket speed limit has resulted in cars travelling through the city attaining only 15 - 20 miles per gallon instead of the more efficient 30 - 40 mpg as was previously the case. This has resulted in more cars, spending more time in the city centre, creating more pollution and more congestion."

    He gets about does 'Irritating Chauvinist' or whatever he's called.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. HankChief
    Member

    If anyone can face it, there is another Murrayfield Community Council meeting tonight - 7.30pm Murrayfield church hall (top room accessed via the alley) Ormidale Terrace.

    Expect more of the same...

    Hopefully we will get chance to finish off the presentation started at the public meeting.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. Stickman
    Member

    As a reminder if anyone can face it, Murrayfield CC is tonight and an update on last week's meeting is on the agenda.

    I don't think I could be responsible for my actions if I was to sit through another of PG's presentations but those with a stronger constitution may want to go along.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. Frenchy
    Member

    Can I make a plea that everyone takes the time to contact their local councillors and makes sure that your views on the proposals are heard.

    I live in Liberton/Gilmerton and I don't think any of my councillors are on the transport committee. What should I be asking them to do?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. Morningsider
    Member

    Frenchy - ask them to publicly state whether they support the scheme and, if they do, to try and persuade their colleagues on the transport committee to support it, especially option A for Roseburn.

    You could also point them at the Pedal on Parliament "5 reasons to support" the scheme page at:

    http://pedalonparliament.org/supporting-edinburghs-east-west-cycle-route-five-reasons-in-five-words/

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    Isn't this decision being taken by the Transport Committee only and not the full Council? Therefore, the 'administration' aren't making a decision, it's the Committee.

    You'd like to think that members of the TEC are conversant with the Council policy that has led to the proposal in the first place. For them to then go against a well-considered, evidence-based scheme would be ridiculous. It HAS to be option A.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. Frenchy
    Member

    Isn't this decision being taken by the Transport Committee only and not the full Council? Therefore, the 'administration' aren't making a decision, it's the Committee.

    Yes, sorry if my terminology was misleading or wrong.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. HankChief
    Member

    It is just the transport committee who will be making the decsion, however, there will no doubt be some consideration amongst party colleagues on how to vote.

    The members of the TEC should be reminded of the widespread support for the plans and the importance for route to tackle several of the city's problems (congestion pollution, inactivity etc.)

    Whatever PG says, this isn't just a Roseburn issue. Transport affects everyone in this city and such a critical piece of infrastructure should be treated as such.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. fimm
    Member

    Is it worth also making the point that if they back down to a small and vociferous minority here, that sets a precedent for other schemes in the future?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    I have said as much to Andrew Burns, at POP as it happened. Words to the effect of..

    "Andrew, if we can't get a bike lane built at Roseburn then what's the point of the 10% budget."

    He agreed!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. gembo
    Member

    I urged same good guy Burns to get the kerbs in and the money spent before 2017 when it will all be roads and cars roads and cars. He agreed.

    Tricky as you know I like Nicky S but then I also like cycling and whilst she has been on a bike once it is all just roads and cars, roads and cars

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. HankChief
    Member

    Bit of a dead rubber tonight as no local councillors turn left up to MCC.

    Still got the usual 'cyclists' banter at every opportunity but I'm used to that by now.

    There was an unwillingness from Pete to be forthcoming with any data to support his arguments and a concession that they relied on the belief of the shopkeepers.

    He also declined an offer to debate the shortcomings with his Vision as it would be wasting everyone's time unless the council agreed to look at it. That misses the point, that if it isn't good enough for the council to consider it then it can never be the solution. Taking honest feedback on it would help him to understand the flaws and why he shouldn't be leading people to believe that he has the answer.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. threefromleith
    Member

    Thanks for the update, @HankChief.

    For some reason I now have the line "He's NOT the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!" running through my head!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    http://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/07/20/report-as-cities-add-bike-lanes-more-people-bike-and-biking-gets-safer/

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    https://ecf.com/news-and-events/news/shopping-bike-cyclists-and-shop-owners-european-cities-unite-liveable-streets-‒

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. ih
    Member

    Some of the antis in Murrayfield seem obsessed with traffic modelling. This was the case at PG's meeting and at the MCC meeting last night. There are questions about whether traffic modelling has been done, what periods it was done for, and last night an MCC member asserted (without any explanation or evidence) that the traffic moddlling had been discredited for the last thirty years.

    Does anyone have a clue what the traffic modelling issue is about, for them, and what implications it has for the plan?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. Stickman
    Member

    ...asserted (without any explanation or evidence)...

    The opposition in a nutshell.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I would be extremely surprised if CEC and its designer/contractors had not carried out traffic modelling for this project.

    To claim that such modelling hasn't been done, or that it's been done 'wrong', or that it must be somehow flawed for the results it produced, is nothing more than a delaying tactic.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. Stickman
    Member

    Phil Noble confirmed last week that modelling had been done on the revised designs, using peak traffic flows.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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