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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. Stickman
    Member

    should discuss with the antis what exactly they want

    The business owners want the parking restored, but that's never going to happen. The best they can expect is that the council continue to turn a blind eye to the parking restrictions being abused. The councillors appear happy to go along with this, and in fact Balfour's contribution at the Transport Committee suggests he is either ignorant of the rules or is as comfortable distorting the facts as PG. The more I think about it then the more I'm angry about how poorly the councillors have dealt with the whole situation.

    Murrayfield Community Council are as fed up with the street as everyone else. Their plans aim to make it nicer for pedestrians, and their past minutes show that they want the businesses to stop putting A-boards out, clogging up the streets and to generally smarten the place up. Their big idea is to widen the pavements, but how can that be done without losing a lane of traffic, supposedly the worst thing that can possibly happen?

    And everyone wants to cut down the amount of traffic going through the area. But that's not going to magically happen if they oppose any change.

    HankChief tried to make these points before at MCC but was shouted down. We can only hope that the working group is more open to discussion.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. Rob
    Member

    Don't forget the EEN who, to start with, reprinted whatever PG sent them.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. Frenchy
    Member

    @chdot Google tells you the month/year the images were taken at the bottom of the screen. Roseburn Terrace was done in May 2016. You can also see older images by clicking on the clock on the left hand side of the screen (spoiler: pretty sure there's illegal parking in all of them).

    From the position of the Sun, it looks like the May 2016 images were taken in the evening, but I don't know if it's possible to find the actual time.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. neddie
    Member

    This area could have been made into a set of off-street parking bays, before the unnecessary advertising hoardings were put up: https://goo.gl/maps/QqSMKp3ETmF2

    (Just needs a bit of bulldozing and removal of a stone wall)

    Might help to placate the shop owner so desperate for parking

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. gembo
    Member

    I forgot to mention that the nice lady I was speaking to at roseburn said she loved cycling up the three inches of space next to the tram tracks at Haymarket yards. I do not think she has ever done that but she did have a helmet on and placard saying love bike hate track. I paraphrase.

    Some details from pete's life long ago also came back to me recently which murrayburn CC would frown upon. But I would not stoop that low unlike Pete.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Very interesting and thoughtful posts. One word of warning - following the links in James Rannoch's blog leads you to an MS Word download from Suits Not Kids. My anti-virus reports that it contains - whodathunkit - spyware.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. gembo
    Member

    Suits not kids

    I had my tweed suit on in the grey horse last night, I was boiling

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    Good analysis from Hankchief there. Well done for putting up with all the vitriol and shenanigans.

    One aspect we seem to have forgotten in all this is that cyclists are reviled and demonised by a large section of the population, mostly (but not all) keen drivists. So the fact this scheme trumpets loudly the benefits for cycling will have put some folks into a frenzy straight away. Then the fact that the 'pro' campaign is fronted by cyclists, well that's just asking for trouble: hence the walkouts, jeering, etc.

    Reasonable arguments won't defeat decades of socially conditioned attitudes. "To see ourselves as others see us" might help to understand the prejudice and anger, if not agree with it let alone condone it.

    So I'm not at all surprised at the vehemence of the opposition from supposedly "respectable pillars of the community" nor their craven supporters in local councillors. The only surprise is that the council proposed this scheme in the first place, and is trying to get it realised despite the opposition.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. HankChief
    Member

    http://countercyclic.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/talkin-bout-my-generation.html?m=1
    "
    Daltrey’s generation grew up to see the private car as a relief from the postwar austerity of their childhoods and a symbol of personal freedom – the freedom of movement for example enabling them to travel further afield for work and explore opportunities not available to their parents. The trouble is they simply cannot imagine that there may be other ways of achieving the same mobility and the same freedoms, at least within the short distances and congested streets of an inner city. A challenge to their unfettered freedom to drive is an assault on liberty itself, an existential threat. They are frightened

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Rosie
    Member

    @crowriver

    2 schemes came out at the same time. The Roseburn to Fountainbridge scheme, and the East-West link. The first scheme is joining some gaps in a fairly uncontroversial way. I was astonished that they were bold enough to suggest the second scheme that would infringe on holy road space. The EC does deserve credit for some boldness in relation to car traffic over the years.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    Guess where I went for morning coffee.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. crowriver
    Member

    "A challenge to their unfettered freedom to drive is an assault on liberty itself, an existential threat. They are frightened"

    That may be true. What is also true is that many car owners judge people who do not own one. Too poor, too incompetent, eccentric, or even something wrong with them. Owning and driving a car is a basic marker of status. It is quite literally incomprehensible to many people how anyone could consider not driving, not owning a car. Especially if you have children, in which case it is seen as irresponsible or something to be pitied.

    To these attitudes add the 'out group' status of cyclists, the sometimes unusual clothing, the non-conformist behaviour (from a driver's perspective), the perception of flouting the rules because cyclists are not playing the game by the same rules as car drivers (e.g.. filtering, "getting in the way", slowing cars down, etc.).

    Little wonder then the aggression from drivers towards cyclists, both on the road and off.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    Local event for LOCAL people -

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    "& Mini-Olympics". Oh, the irony. I note that no cycling events will feature...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. Stickman
    Member

    The sign for the bake off in the park said "all welcome"

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. crowriver
    Member

    "all welcome" said the sign.

    (Except cyclists) was left unsaid, but tacitly understood.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Don't know where they left their car(s).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    Roseburn: the future is coming -

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    For a moment there I dreamed that was a supporting pillar for a cycle bridge to carry happy cyclists across Roseburn towards Fountainbridge. However I imagine it's just a pedestal for a video billboard...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    New business coming -

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    Presumably, this is what the traders fear -

    Of course for all (or most of) the shops to go out of business would mean they hadn't 'moved with the times' and continued to attract enough customers spending enough money.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. ih
    Member

    Wonder if Pete got permission from the IOC for the use of the "rings" and the word "Olympics"?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Those shop units have been empty and converted to houses for much longer than there's been any painted cycle lane there.

    Anyway, for some light relief. Not just applicable to Roseburn as I hear Milngavie's right about the same level of political maturity.

    Local Roads by andy a, on Flickr

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. Stickman
    Member

    http://www.murrayfieldcc.org.uk/news/news_detail/566

    ALSO If you are part of a Local Group of some kind, the GROUP can become recognised by the City Council and permitted to nominate a group member to join the Community Council.

    My interpretation of this is that local groups can nominate someone to stand even if the person doesn't live in the area...Roseburn Cycle Group's way in?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    I think RCG is already 'in'.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @kaputnik

    Bottom right-hand figure. Ouch.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. Good the RCG is in

    As this is a cross city scheme, perhaps it also needs an Edinburgh Cross City Cycle Group, a Cross City Cycle Group of Edinburgh. And maybe an East West Cycle Route Group, with a West East Cycle group thrown in for good measure.

    What did the Pythons ever do for us?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    Ref above, think I'm confusing things.

    I mean RCG in CEC's SG rather than on MCC - but that might be a good idea!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. crowriver
    Member

    Presumably that also means KNS (SNK?) are 'in' both the MCC (Middlesex Cricket Club?) and the SG (Scottish Government?).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. Stickman
    Member

    @chdot: yes, I meant perhaps getting a voice on MCC

    @crowriver: how many people are needed to form a group? As far as I can see KNS has a membership of one.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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