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The "Touring Tips" they don't tell you about in the books

(68 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by kaputnik
  • Latest reply from kaputnik
  • This topic is resolved

  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    So, after buying the touring bike earlier in the year and slowly accumulating the necessary yellow bits and pieces from the Ortlieb range and a tent since then, I'm just about ready to set out on my inaugural tour in just under 2 weeks time.

    I'm doing the Sea to Sea / C2C with a buddy from work - we're both keen and fit cyclists and have plenty camping experience to see us through that side of things. However we're complete virgins when it comes to touring and although we've "read the instructions" there's always a million things you learn as you go, or the hard way. So, in an effort to pre-empt this I thought it would be pertinent to put the following question to the seasoned and expert CCE panel;

    "if there was one thing you wish you'd been told before you did your first cycle tour, what was it?"

    This thread of course is also a public service as it will for a fine "top tips for touring" repository for the general browsing public at large.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    I've never done a cycle tour so I can't suggest anything except that I hope you have a great time.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "The "Touring Tips" they don't tell you about in the books"

    Depends which books...

    Presume you've read http://www.c2c-guide.co.uk/pre-ride

    Don't aim for too many miles per day - it's supposed to be a holiday.

    Don't carry too much 'just in case' stuff.

    At least one spare tube (each).

    Agree on tools and split them between you.

    You can never visit too many teashops.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    You can never visit too many teashops.

    Tea. That's like ale. Yeah?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    "That's like ale. Yeah?"

    Depending on licensing hours...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    Take a radio.

    You do know it will be November by then and possibly a bit chilly?

    Pasta with pesto can be done in one pot. If you have a Trangia you can cook two things at once. Put the spuds in the wee pot and the beans in the big pot. Once the spuds have been on for a while you can put the big pot on top of the wee one like a double boiler for melting chocolate. The heat from the spuds will warm up the beans.

    Headtorch. You can go for a pee (etc) with both hands free.

    Take plenty of plastic bags. Even Ortleib aren't water proof when you open them and you need to separate wet and dry kit.

    Cup-a-soup is fast, light and tastes OK if you stick with tomato flavour. Buy spuds and tins as close as possible to where you're going to use them. This isn't always easy in the highlands in the summer, I've no idea what it will be like in November.

    Swiss Army Knife. If nothing else you can use it for opening tins.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Read Stephen Lord's Adventure Cycle-Touring Handbook to find out what to take, how to use it, and where to go, and then read Nick and Richard Crane's Journey to the Centre of the Earth to find out how little to take and how to ride 60 miles on no breakfast.

    Drill out your spanners to save weight; cut off all excess webbing straps to save weight; shave off your eyebrows to save weight. That's the sort of thing, I'm led to believe.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    wee folding bike: "Headtorch. You can go for a pee (etc) with both hands free." but don't look in the direction of any other sounds you hear in the toilets or you'll illuminate some other camper's genitals.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. Min
    Member

    Never let your friend take her(or his) panniers off to ride out and back to somewhere, then discover when you get there that all the food was in her(or his) panniers.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. steveo
    Member

    15kg is relatively easy to move when your riding the bike however it makes the bike very difficult to move around by hand like trying to fight onto a train. Especially if all the weight is over the rear wheel as when you try to lift it the rear wheel stays planted and the bike just pivots on the rear axle...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. cb
    Member

    I've always had a Klickfix attached bar bag when touring which is a great place to keep all your valuables - camera, wallet, etc.

    Kickstand is pretty handy too, although it can sometimes be hard to adjust it for a heavily loaded bikes.

    Try to ensure that you can physically lift your fully loaded bike.

    Lots of weight on the back can result in an embarrasing uncontrolled wheelie when trying to push the bike across a stattion concourse.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  12. steveo
    Member

    Or worse it can lead to a uncontrolled wheelie then dropping the bike while trying to start on what at the time didn't seem that steep a hill, resulting in those nice grippy mtb peddles removing a whole load of skin from you shin...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  13. ruggtomcat
    Member

    take less, go slower.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  14. Smudge
    Member

    Touring tips?

    Well I don’t know about bicycle touring, but I’ve done jobs before where I lived out in the countryside and everything I used has to be carried on my back (and packed in the space left after the bulky and heavy tools of the trade!), I believe some of the lessons will carry over (I’ll find out next year when friends and I are doing John O Groats to Carlisle!) So here’s how I pack…

    First thing is to identify what you think you’ll need, eg. sleeping bag, tent, wash kit, cooker, pans, plate/s mug etc etc.

    Then lay them all out on the floor and consider whether you *really* need them, eg. knife fork and spoon, you only need the spoon (and possibly a penknife). Tent, will the weather be fair? Could you use a bivi instead? Have a cuppa and just look at them and mull it over. Then start discarding things.
    Now do it again and throw away anything you have any doubts over, eg. “I’m not sure, it might be useful”.

    Now look at it again, this time we’re hopefully looking at the things we really *need* to carry, so now we minimize them. Again, be ruthless/obsessive, some examples;
    Take your toothbrush and snap the handle in two then file the broken end off smooth (concrete will do this if you have no file) it will still do the job but it’s smaller and a fraction lighter.
    Get a 35mm film can and put some toothpaste in it, you don’t need toothpaste for a month if you’re only out for a week, similar for shower gel, or if you use cake soap, take one that’s almost done or chop a new block in half.
    Take a hand-towel not a bath towel.
    Look at your sleeping bag, is it big and bulky? Get an Army surplus bivi bag, about £50 last time I looked, totally waterproof and worth another couple of seasons on the warmth of a bag, allowing you to use a lighter, smaller sleeping bag. It’s also easier to efficiently fit in two smaller items than one large one.
    Sleeping mat, it only needs to go from your head to your behind, your legs don’t need that much insulation, so cut the unnecessary bit off a foam mat or if you can afford it, use a half length thermarest or equivalent.
    Do you need more than one pot? (I think you can guess the answer by now…;-)) If you can find a proper stainless steel “Crusader” mug, you will find you can cook on it and yet the lip stays cool allowing you to drink from it, so one mug, no pots. (If you are teaming up with someone else and you need a bigger pot of course then one can carry the pot the other the mugs)
    Take the same attitude and work through everything you intend to take. Make it smaller or lighter in every way you can.

    Complete this exercise properly and you’ll find you should be able to just about get your shelter / washing / sleeping / cooking kit into a daysack sized bag. Naturally we need to spread them about along with clothes/tools and whatever else is required in order to get a sensible weight distribution but that’s the sort of size we’re aiming for. (Or ideally smaller)

    Same idea with clothes… and everything else!
    (Sort of the opposite of what I do on my commute, sigh)
    Hope that's relevant/helpful :)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  15. druidh
    Member

    Sealskinz or Goretex socks. When your shoes get wet one day and they won't dry out for the next (it being November and all), you'll be grateful for these. Make sure your shoes are big enough for them before you start your tour though.

    I like to go for a wee walk around after dinner. Helps the digestive process and the wee bit of exercise seems to loosen the muscles up for the next day. Sleeping with your feet raised helps too.

    Oh - and chamois cream.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    All good tips so thanks to all contributors.

    Having just got back from the C2C here are the lessons I have learned (mostly the hard way)!

    * invest in good brake blocks. I was carrying 13kg on a 15kg frame. Add to that my own weight and some of the descents and hairpin bends on a very wet C2C made for some interesting attempts to keep the bike under control. On the longer and steeper descents, such as Whinlatter, Hartide and the 20% plus into Nenthead the braking force rapidly reduced as the blocks heated up, polished themselves smooth and then began to emit a terrible squealing noise and burn
    * decent waterproof overboots and a decent pair of touring shoes were a godsend, even on the second day which was dry BBB aquashields over Northwave Touring shoes for me. My buddy's Pro booties over a pair of Shimano road shoes resulted in very cold and wet feet for him. The Northwaves are transparent to air, but when you get them in a windproof cover are great when they get a bit damp. I also didn't have to worry about taking a second pair of shoes with me for the pub.

    * head-torches are useless as your sole source of "seeing with" light in the rain / mist / cold. They just illuminate the rain / mist / your condensing breath. I also had to turn mine upside down so that I could get a decent angle on the beam without putting a crick in my neck

    * I was glad for taking the advice (of Druidh, I think) to leave the Marathon Plus tyres on. You don't know how bad some of the surfaces are going to be until you're barrelling down them with 30kg of bike and luggage!

    * For some reason the usually impeccable Ortlieb have scored a major fail with the button/stud fasteners on their bar bag. Without the map case on the front 2 rattle like anything and drive you daft. Need bluetac shoved in them to silence them. With the map case on, they are too fiddly to work with thicker gloves on - the studs on the map case appear to be a tighter fit, so when you want to unfold the map the whole map case generally comes off on the first attempt.

    * Gore "lobster claw" gloves are the most useless piece of cycling-specific handwear I've ever had the misfortune to try. Thick, uncomfortable seams in all the wrong places, the design seems to force your fingers up into the end of the gloves when you use them on dropped bars, the exterior finishing of the fingers is too "padded" to give you enough dexterity to operate integrated shifters properly, they have no resistance whatsoever to the damp, they don't keep your hands warm, they're hard to put on and get off. A general waste of too much money and a letter going off to Gore to tell them as much.
    * you don't have to get off the bike for a pee (if you're a gentleman at least - ladies might need a shewee!) but stopping is generally advised
    * you amaze yourself with what feats of changing clothing or retrieving bits from your luggage you can achieve on the go
    * 7 mph seems too fast going up steep hills
    * you can never have a small enough gear
    * you can never eat enough jelly babies
    * sprinting is an interesting concept with all that weight over the back wheel

    Posted 14 years ago #
  17. Smudge
    Member

    Interesting & useful stuff, thanks. I shall keep those in mind :)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  18. druidh
    Member

    For some reason the usually impeccable Ortlieb have scored a major fail with the button/stud fasteners on their bar bag. Without the map case on the front 2 rattle like anything and drive you daft. Need bluetac shoved in them to silence them.

    Ah yes- I should have mentioned that. I usually carry a solar charger in my mapcase these days, so I'd forgotten that one.

    * invest in good brake blocks. I was carrying 13kg on a 15kg frame. Add to that my own weight and some of the descents and hairpin bends on a very wet C2C made for some interesting attempts to keep the bike under control. On the longer and steeper descents, such as Whinlatter, Hartide and the 20% plus into Nenthead the braking force rapidly reduced as the blocks heated up, polished themselves smooth and then began to emit a terrible squealing noise and burn

    Or get disc brakes.....

    Posted 14 years ago #
  19. Smudge
    Member

    "Or get disc brakes..... "

    with a smaller surface area and reduced exposure to the airflow further limiting the pads ability to get rid of the heat generated, add the reduced mechanical advantage of the disc diameter as against the rim diameter and the only advantage you have (apart from possibly better quality pad materiel) is the ability to squeeze harder. From a mech engineering point of view it's a terrible answer!

    Can I ask what sort of brakes you are using? Most (heavily loaded) tourers seem to cope even in hot weather using cantilevers and the really silly "adventure" tourers sometimes V brakes. Though if you were managing enough pressure to make them smoke and squeal it suggests the ability to squeeze was not the limiting factor!

    Sounds like crap pads, name and shame I'd say ;-)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Can I ask what sort of brakes you are using?

    They are cantilevers - Shimano R550 with integrated shifter levers in series with some Tektro chicken levers. It's a slightly odd design of cantilever though in that it seems to take V-brake blocks. The pads weren't the bargain basement ones, more like bargain ground floor. Can't remember the brand but £4.95 out of TBC.

    I have to say I'm seriously under-impressed with them, they were new on, correctly set up. I had to wind in the barrel adjuster the next morning as I'd shaved about 2mm off the blocks on day one alone.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  21. splitshift
    Member

    Not really cycling specific, but If you happen to be in a bothy ( or tent ) which is leaking profusely, dont put your sleeping bag inside any plastic bag type things, like fertiliser bags ! Seemed like a good idea at the time, unless of cours they are goretex fertiliser bags !
    Matches,.... I know your not supposed to light fires any more but, lighters fail just when you really need them.... some non safety matches can save you, burn trees and other non enviro stuff !Baby wipes, less space than roll of toilet paper.Salt and pepper in folded over straws, or visit macdonalds etc before hand and steal......sorry liberate as much as you want. including milk stuff ! Its all uht and will last a millenium. Tin foil, great stuff, get extra cheap value stuff, I have personally cooked beans and other loose foodstuffs in foil, next to, around my triange, while cooking other stuff.Always double cook, water boiling for ....tea, pop a plastic bag of ....watever in the water, clipped to the side of the pot with a bulldog style clip. Boil in the bag style !packaging who needs it ? pot noodles, take them out of their plastic tubs, into a plastic bag,mix in your own cup and mix with a handfull of browned mince. or cold spam if that floats your boat !
    Cut all yopur allen keys down to about a centimetre and use leatherman type pliers to turn em.Always carry acouple of electricle cable connectors, to reconnect any snapped cables.
    Dont eat yellow snow and always smile at strangers !
    Go as slow as you want and enjoy.
    The last word is the key. ENJOY.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    "there's very little that can't be fixed with some gaffer tape and a tea bag"

    Posted 14 years ago #
  23. ruggtomcat
    Member

    have a look at ultra-light stoves. low pressure alcohol and wood gassifier. The yanks have been exploring the minimal trekking approach for a while now, It all applies to the bike too :)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  24. Darkerside
    Member

    Whilst searching for something completely different, found this. Deserves to be dragged up to the front page again, if only in memory of warmer times and a great week riding from Helensburgh to Thurso via everything west and north.

    Two tips.

    If you are so desparate to leave L*wis that you cycle through the night to get to Stornoway, the midnight freight ferry takes bikes if you ask them nicely. You also get a cabin, a massive bowl of spicy corned beef hash and endless sugary tea, served from a proper galley. All for £7.

    Camping hammocks are brilliant. Lightweigh, waterproof, breathable and when the trees run out can be pitched on the ground with the bike holding up one end, and a convenient telegraph pole the other.

    Ah, good times.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    Well that was a good (re-)read.

    Feel free to find other forgotten wisdom...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  26. steveo
    Member

    I'd forgotten about this thread. Kaputniks comment on brake blocks would have served me well after I burned through a brand new set of pads on my c2c earlier this year.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    "I'd forgotten about this thread"

    I think we need to find a student who needs to write a paper on the wit, wisdom and concerns of 21C Scottish bicycle users.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @darkerside I don't imagine that my kickstand would allow me to support a hammock from the bike, without effectively sleeping on the ground!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  29. Darkerside
    Member

    !

    Hammock definitely on the group, but it supports the flysheet and waterproof tarp above the head. Guy rope goes from hammock to bike frame then down to peg, and the tension keeps the whole thing surprisingly sturdy without the need to kickstands.

    Also, the first night we obviously slept directly over a stream in a wood, just because we could. This made getting out in the morning without a dunking exceptionally challenging, as the exit is through the base of the hammock.

    Hennesey Hammocks, if anyone fancies a google.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  30. steveo
    Member

    My buddy had one of these the first time we went away, finding a spot that would suit both my little coffin tent and his hammock was challenging. The second night he adapted it to a bivvy and slept on the ground!

    Posted 12 years ago #

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