CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Glasgow Queen Street rail tunnel to close for 20 weeks

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  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35291436

    Pertinent when travelling with your bike or without it.

    20 weeks of tunnel closure over the summer means 20 weeks of the high-level platforms being out of service. Basically the access tunnels to Queen Street need to be completely re-built at the ground level to give clearance for the electrification.

    Services diverting via either the 2 low-level platforms or re-routed to Central. Expect Armageddon. And slightly longer and more inconvenient journeys.

    For those unfamiliar with the intricacies of the central Glasgow rail network, it's not possible for a train approaching Queen Street from the North (i.e. Falkirk High / Croy / Linlithgow route) to get to Central (high level) without reversing at some point; trains can only access Central from the south.

    The Victorians had "sorted" this problem by building the City of Glasgow Union Railway, which allowed access from the north or the south to a grand, central terminus. Unfortunately that terminus was St. Enoch (now the largest glass roof in Europe according to Wikipedia)... Also, the North British fell out with the Glasgow & South Western, the other main partner in the Union Railway and instead focused on Queen Street as its main terminus). Various schemes mooted over the last 60 or so years have never gotten far off the drawing board to connect Queen Street and Central by rails.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. acsimpson
    Member

    [i]"...the largest engineering project undertaken on the Edinburgh to Glasgow, via Falkirk High, railway, since it was built.
    ...
    Transport Minister Derek Mackay said: "This is a once in a generation project and one of the most ambitious ever planned on the Edinburgh-Glasgow route."[i]

    I wonder who he thinks built the railway.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. sallyhinch
    Member

    Ah. That's going to make things interesting for those coming to POP on the train ...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. SRD
    Moderator

    @sally wasn't the lowlevel route the better one for bikes anyhow?

    @kappers can you explain "Unfortunately that terminus was St. Enoch" for those of us unfamiliar?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. Stickman
    Member

    St Enoch station demolished years ago....

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    St Enoch was closed by the doctor. By the time I came along it was a car park. The roof was removed in the mid '70s and shortly after that the building was demolished. For about 10 years it was a big flat car park and then a shopping centre was built on it. That's what the glass roof is about.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Enoch_railway_station

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. wee folding bike
    Member

    Remember Gregory's Girl where he was waiting by the big clock? That clock was from St Enoch's.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    A previous thread -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9835

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    St. Enoch, the patron saint of closed railway stations and once-fashionable 1980s shopping centres. Cousin of St. James.

    See also the ghost of Waverley Market past.

    Traditionally Glasgow had four major city centre terminuses. Or termini. Central (Caledonian Railway) and Queen Street (North British Railway) still exist, Buchanan Street (Caledonian Railway) which was near Queen Street also served routes from the north and east, with traffic transferring to Queen Street mainly when it closed. St. Enoch (Glasgow & South Western Railway) was accessible from north and south, but mainly served routes from the south and west. Its traffic later transferred to Central.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    @kappers can you explain "Unfortunately that terminus was St. Enoch" for those of us unfamiliar?

    SRD, here's a map showing the former stations:

    http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.8615&lon=-4.2551&layers=10

    and the modern equivalent on OpenTransportMap:

    http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/55.8595/-4.2530&layers=T

    So even if your train from Edinburgh and Falkirk High diverted left at the Cowlairs junction and ran through Springburn and Duke Street and Bellgrove, you can't get to the ground level platforms at Queen Street, only the low level (which you'd get to anyway by taking a train via Bathgate and Airdrie).

    And your train via Springburn could turn left after Bellgrove and cross the Clyde, but as K said, there isn't a connecting line to bring you straight into Central station. You would have to go as far as one of the Paisley stations before you could really reverse the train to get to Central.

    I think it was an idea Tulyar had, whereby the old viaduct that led to St Enoch station from Gallowgate could be reopened and a temporary elevated set of platforms constructed in the St Enoch Centre car park, to add some capacity while Queen Street was out of action. Probably too radical for Network Rail and Transport Scotland.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    Thanks all. I suspected something like that and did consider googling but I knew you guys would have a more interesting account than what I could piece together myself. Fascinating stuff.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/live-discussion-impact-of-queen-street-tunnel-closure-1-4074120

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. steveo
    Member

    Any one know why the Milngavie train is taking 20 minutes longer?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Route diversions will mean most journeys will take up to 25 minutes longer with queuing systems in place to enter and exit Queen Street Lower level station.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/countdown-to-queen-street-tunnel-upgrade-disruption-begins-1-4069273

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. steveo
    Member

    Hmmm, the Helensburgh train is 10 minutes quicker than normal.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. wingpig
    Member

    I need to get to Ayr (any one of the four Ayr/Prestwick stations) and back on Thursday. I fortunately do not require a bike but it would be useful at the other end to reduce travel times; abandoning the bike at a rack in Glasgow would also be an option.

    Does anyone have any recent direct experience of getting a bike on a train to Ayr?

    The services I've picked say "no assigned seat available", in case that means that with no seat reservation I can't make a bike reservation, unless that's just because I've picked off-peak day return, which might be beneath the minimum ticket-rank for permitting reservations.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. dougal
    Member

    @wingpig I can't talk to recent - in fact I last did that journey almost exactly a year ago - but the Glasgow-Ayr train was deserted during the day and I had no problem taking a bike laden with camping equipment on board. IIRC this was travelling about mid-day on a Thursday.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  18. Roibeard
    Member

    @winpig - the Stranraer trains have a walk through cycle storage area with hangers for six or eight bikes, so should prove no problem. We've used that route repeatedly even with the Pino and family, and managed it fine.

    I don't know about the trains that terminate at Ayr itself.

    Robert

    Posted 9 years ago #

  19. wingpig
    Member

    @Roibeard/Dougal Ta. My eventual destination is only half a mile inland on the nebulous Ayr/Prestwick border, so anywhere from the airport to the proper big red hotel/station would be within walking distance. There's a direct train back but all the outgoings involve Glasgow, so it should be easy enough to identify which go further south.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    There are (or were, before tunnel works?) a few direct Edinburgh - Ayr services a day. They use the Class 380 (a.k.a. North Berwick) rolling stock, with the multipurpose fold-down seats areas around the disabled toilets doubling as bike stowage.

    My experience of them is that they are fairly empty apart from the North Berwick - Edinburgh section, and I've never been beyond Motherwell on them.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  21. Mandopicker101
    Member

    I think the service now mostly runs to Glasgow Central. I caught the 7:12 at Musselburgh this morning which goes to Central having started in North Berwick.

    However ScotRail's timetable shows an evening service that from North Berwick to Ayr and a mid-afternoon service from Ayr to North Berwick. Three hours though...

    It's like something from the boardgame 'Ticket To Ride'.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  22. gembo
    Member

    Edinburgh Ayr trains all run Glasgow Central, you sit there waiting for maybe ten mins. THe seats fold up for sure on the one I was on (I only went to Curriehill on it) paRllel to the side of the train

    Normal Glasgow Central - Ayr trains have a funny arrangement with three seats facing three seats but as has been said room for bikes outwith the peak rush hour or during th Glasgow Fair when the trains can be busy.

    THere is a faster Cross country train from Edinburgh via Motherwell to Central that is a Birmingham Train, this allows time to connect to the onward train to AYr from Glasgow Central.

    There is the slow train from Edinburgh to Glasgow Central via Shotts, plenty room for bikes but very slow

    THere is an Edinburgh to Glasgow Central via Livingston (does not stop at all the stops) that is a bit faster.

    THe Edinburgh to Helensburgh has the fold up seats parallel to the walls of the train. That goes through Queen St.

    Cycling back with a tail wind on the A70 is not too preposterous

    Posted 9 years ago #

  23. wingpig
    Member

    "Cycling back with a tail wind on the A70 is not too preposterous"

    Cycling there or back is on a list of things to do at some point, but not on a singlespeed (assuming I won't get time this weekend to fix the proper bike) starting sometime after 18:00 with work the next day.

    Stranraer trains appear to start at Ayr, or are at least not appearing on searches leaving from Glasgow as anything other than a change-at-Ayr option. Ideal-most leaving-time service goes via Motherwell with one change, whereas the ideal-time return is direct (but still via Motherwell), though there are several only-slightly-later reserve-returns which would also be used if I had to go on foot from Glasgow.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  24. steveo
    Member

    Any one been through in the last few weeks? How bad is it?

    Need to go through next week and trying to decide whether to risk taking the bike. I normally get the faster train from EDP to GLQ but I think thats on a go slow now.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  25. wingpig
    Member

    If you take the Shotts route and get a CrossCountry train then you can reserve a space, albeit from Platform 9. There were none trying to get onto the 09:18 on Thursday 7th. It got me into Central a couple of minutes later than the nearest Queen Street service which left three minutes later.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  26. fimm
    Member

    The Airdrie - Bathgate trains that I commute on don't seem to be much busier than usual (though I'm on my outward journey before 8am) - if I had to go to Glasgow with a bike that is the route I would use.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  27. steveo
    Member

    Schotts route is a good shout, doesn't seem to be one to get in much before 1030 though. The EDP train I normally get isn't too much different but I suspect it will be a trifle busier than normal.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  28. wee folding bike
    Member

    My boys get the the train to school and there has been some disruption in recent weeks but they are still running just not at the expected times.

    I had a meeting in the Crowne Plaza today but I cycled both ways so I don't know what the state of play is.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  29. gembo
    Member

    The cross country route that goes via Motherwell to central has come from Birmingham or
    Further south.? The slow train via shotts you can get from wester hailes. There is also a livingston route that you get from Haymarket to central the Edinburgh park one is to Helensburgh or milngavie via Bathgate and is queen street low level. Quite a few options really.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Other half visiting the folks in Motherwell today, couldn't get on the Cross Country service home at 5 due to overcrowding, had to wait another 2 hours...

    Even in the sunshine, central Motherwell isn't the greatest or most inspiring place to try and while away 2 hours until our train.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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