CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Cars really hurt

(46 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by gdm
  • Latest reply from Edinburgh Cycle Training

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  1. gdm
    Member

    So, I got knocked down this morning...

    I was coming downhill on Queen's Park Avenue to the roundabout at Meadowbank Terrace and Duke's Walk, checked right and progressed to go straight over. Once I could see right down the first left onto Duke's Walk, I spotted a car which I hoped would stop at the entrance to the roundabout. He didn't.

    By the time he hit me, I was just past the mid-point of his bonnet, so I was well progressed on the roundabout already by the time when he should have spotted me. Anyway, head and face made contact with the bonnet, followed shortly after by contact with the road in a remarkably effective pincer movement of pain which I really hadn't anticipated.

    This was my first 'collision' to use the parlance of the media and I was very lucky as - despite the fact he was clearly going too fast to see me - I was able to get up afterwards, albeit a little shocked. I did, however, go to the hospital as I couldn't remember the immediate aftermath of the crash and I had quite a bit of pain down my spine which has fortunately all turned out to only be muscular.

    The driver, to be fair, stopped and admitted it was his fault - pretty difficult to do anything otherwise. I was certainly going less than 15MPH, had my lights on and was wearing my day-glo luminous yellow cycling jacket and he STILL didn't see me. Meanwhile, he was approaching a roundabout and should have been anticipating people coming from his right, so I've no idea what he was doing. Apart from not paying attention, of course.

    Anyway, apart from the concussion, rather a lot of pain and some scrapes to the face and knee I'm alright. I'm hoping the bike can be saved but the incident has sealed the deal on where I now come down on the helmet debate: firmly pro.

    It does also rather make me wonder what the hell else you can do to make yourself safe - all the gear, lights and obeying the letter of the Highway Code and still you're entirely at the mercy of someone else being alert to other sentient beings as we like to call ourselves.

    I started a new job in December and have been doing my new commute since then, although I don't believe for a second that this was a factor in the crash. Believe it or not I was also supposed to be taking the opportunity this morning at an office-wide meeting to encourage everyone to get involved in a local cycling scheme. Maybe put that on the back burner for a few weeks.

    I think I'll take the longer way round when I'm next heading to work.

    Be safe, folks... Cars really hurt.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. wingpig
    Member

    Glad you're able to recount it.
    Police informed/involved, I assume?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. sallyhinch
    Member

    Oh yikes, just reading that made me wince.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. LaidBack
    Member

    Holyrood Park and streets around it = promise of urban freeway = hurried driving.

    No excuse for not seeing you though - glad you've recovered enough to share the story.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. gdm
    Member

    I think almost entirely due to the shock and me being rather concussed I agreed with the driver for him to give me a lift to the hospital. By the time we got around Queen's Drive my back was really beginning to seize up and I had the sense to say to stop so I could get an ambulance. I've got too many friends who play rugby with horror stories about just assuming their back would be ok after some incident or other.

    Fortunately, there was a police van just there and we flagged them down - they took a statement and breathylysed him. Apparently because no other drivers stopped (no idea if there were any!) they wouldn't be able to charge him with reckless driving. They've got a statement from him where he takes responsibility and to be fair he was genuinely sorry.

    As long as I get my bike repaired or replaced on insurance I'll be happy!

    As long as I get my bike repaired or replaced on insurance and don't get knocked down again I'll be happy!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. unhurt
    Member

    Yikes. Very glad to hear the damage is heal-able. I hope your wishes for happiness come to pass!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. SRD
    Moderator

    Ouch. Poor you. Hope you're doing okay tomorrow.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. Rob
    Member

    Glad you're ok! I've had a couple of very similar close calls on roundabouts in the dark. I got myself a light which attaches to the spokes to increase visibility from the side.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. much empathy @gdm glad to hear its not too serious. Hopefully you and your bike are roadworthy again soon

    Its just over two months since my off in The Park, still not back on the steed 'properly' so you might need some patience too!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Get well soon gdm.

    "Apparently because no other drivers stopped (no idea if there were any!) they wouldn't be able to charge him with reckless driving."

    Gotta love corroboration. Do what thou wilt, just make sure there's no witnesses. Scots law is just super-duper.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. gdm
    Member

    I'm keen to get back on the bike soon so I don't start getting excessively anxious about approaching certain junctions or going miles out of the way to get on ever-so-slightly quieter routes.

    You're probably right though @BikeabilityEdinburgh - may take a bit more than a day or two to recover!

    I think I'll get a siren and flashing light like what detectives stick on their car roofs when they're chasing hoodlums. Sure it's probably illegal, but crashes suck.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. gdm
    Member

    Cheers @MurunBuchstansangur - I couldn't believe that one when he told me and even in my recovering daze I gave a rather harrumphing "EH?!"

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "they wouldn't be able to charge him with reckless driving."

    What about 'without due care and attention.'?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_without_due_care_and_attention

    Or doesn't that work in Scotland either??

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Same thing chdot - requires corroboration. Google the loophole in Scotland of not signing Section 172 requests (ie requiring the registered keeper of a motor vehicle to identify the driver at the time of an offence), thereby escaping prosecution - an utter disgrace after nearly 20 years of a Scottish Parliament. But hey, the Rt Hon Lord Carloway reckons everything's hunky-dory so us mere plebs will just have to continue bending over and taking it.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. gdm
    Member

    @chdot - it does seem a little like throwing in the towel. "Oh, well, no-one saw you so tra-la-la!"

    I don't want to belittle the police as they were very supportive today. They did say when they were finishing up just how relentlessly busy they were. It's unlikely to be in their interests to therefore encourage people who have walked away from an accident to go down the route that places an even greater demand on their time for something that, on our admittedly very questionable societal scorecard of 'What's the most important criminal offence to pursue', features far lower than it should.

    I understand all the reasons why that's crazy and infuriating but don't see it changing any time soon. It does rather beg the question of at what point would such an incident matter? Serious injury? Disability? Death? Or would each of them still only depend on whether there were another pair of eyes around.

    The only reason I now wear a helmet is because of what the judge said in the Audrey Fife case - if I'm going to be knocked down I don't want the b*gg*=rs coming up with any excuses.

    Having said that, they still did.

    Tra-la-la!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    Well yes, but the driver admitted it, so no corroboration necessary(?)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    When I was knocked down due to a driver not looking. I was initially told the driver would be charged with dangerous driving. Surprise surprise though, months later they decided not to bother until I complained. Once they decided to send a report to the pf they told me he could be charged with careless driving using both our statements.

    I would strongly advise getting in touch with a lawyer because injuries that seem like nothing just now may need physio to sort out. It took months for my injuries to heal and even 9 months on I am still bothered with twinges from my shoulders and elbows.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. gdm
    Member

    @chdot - that is what I was confused about also, but then I have had a concussion, which is probably why I'd been foolish enough to assume the law might be logical!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. gdm
    Member

    @wishicouldgofaster - that's a very interesting point. It says so much about my thinking that I'd be anxious about pursuing that because of the potential implications for the driver and the confrontation involved...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. Nelly
    Member

    @gdm - hope you dont feel too bad today, sometimes a day or two after the bruises feel worse.

    As a daily cyclist and sometime driver, I feel reasonably well qualified to comment in this case - especially as I go through the park fairly often to pick up my son from parents.

    When driving, the sightlines looking to the right up Queens Park Avenue are entirely fine - i.e. you can slow down, get a good look and proceed across the roundabout no problem at all.

    I understand your reticence at wishing to pursue something - you are clearly being a decent person.

    However as I have said above, he has either not looked at all, not slowed enough or not paid attention - any of these is frankly not good enough.

    I concur with @wishicouldgofaster and would pursue both the police and a lawyer about this incident.

    Get well soon.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @gdm

    That sounds both horrible and terrifying. I am very glad that you walked away from this and heartened by the driver's willingness to accept their responsibility for you getting hurt.

    On the legal thing, my mum just got done for driving without due care and attention. Pulled out at a T-junction and got thwacked by another car. No-one hurt, no witnesses other than her and the other driver.

    (She got her eyes checked afterwards and was horrified to discover she had a cataract - she has decided not to drive again until it is treated and possibly then never again depending on her vision and confidence.)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. amir
    Member

    @gdm hope you recover quickly

    Like @iwrats Mum, you'd hope that sensible people, if they made such a mistake when driving would thoroughly question themselves and take themselves off the road.

    There's evidence that some don't and the law needs to protect us from them. It would help if there were more police enforcing driving standards, supported by the courts. The accident rate in this country is nothing to be proud of.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. UtrechtCyclist
    Member

    That sounds horrible, hope you're not aching too much this morning.

    There is a middle road between getting a lawyer and doing nothing. When I was knocked off my bike a few years ago I got their car insurance to arrange physio for me directly. At the end of many sessions of physio they made me an offer of compensation which I thought was fair compensation for the hours that I'd spent in physio. Formally they were managing my claim (against themselves) and were obliged to do various things such as inform me when I was approaching the time limit for suing them had I wanted to. At any point I could have got a lawyer to take over, so I just kept going without a lawyer for as long as I thought they were being reasonable which took me all the way to the conclusion of things.

    Of course this isn't a sensible approach if you think you might have serious and long lasting issues.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. gdm
    Member

    Cheers all for your kind words and helpful comments.

    I'm walking about like the Tin Man today. Obviously, it's only been 24 hours, so hopefully it'll improve quickly. I think at the moment I'm just worried in case something doesn't go away and I don't want to end up ruing not having acted sooner.

    @Nelly - that's both good to know and frustrating as it clearly shows he was absolutely not paying attention and does make you wonder why shouldn't he be charged? As @amir says, we can't rely on the police to enforce these things (or to encourage us to pursue them) so what is the REAL incentive for drivers to really learn from events? I've mentioned that the driver seemed genuinely sorry so I wouldn't want to pursue anything unless I had justification on injury grounds, but who knows when I'll be able to tell what any long-term impact there's been.

    Anyhoo - thinking positively and calculating other routes to work already! The one that's likely safest is about twice the distance but worth it if it means no more of this sort of thing.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. crowriver
    Member

    @gdm, that sounds horrific and scary. I hope you recover fully and swiftly.

    I sense a reticence to pursue the matter as the driver was apparently quite decent about it all afterwards. One way to distance yourself from feeling as though you're attacking anyone personally is to deal with it all through your insurance. It might be that your home insurance has personal accident cover: if so I recommend making a claim. This will then set off a chain of events where your insurer will contact the driver's insurers, or possibly even instruct a lawyer on your behalf. You may not need to be involved to any great extent.

    Easy to say in hindsight, but it can be important to take down a driver's insurance details if involved in a collision, as they should all have third party cover which is designed to pay out compensation if they hit anyone. Usually this is other cars, but in your case you have injuries and maybe a damaged bike. I'm just suggesting the insurance route as it can take some of the aggro out of all this but potentially pay out compensation.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. gdm
    Member

    @crowriver - cheers, that's a good suggestion and does sound a little more measured than going straight for the lawyers.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. wingpig
    Member

    @gdm After my careless driver from December 2014 refused to settle privately (after stating he would do so (with the police as witnesses) at the scene) then refused to provide his own insurance details (he had admitted his name, phone number and email) I extracted them from askMID.com for £4; the perpetrator's insurer then did most of the legwork (with some nagging and course-correction) towards restoring to me an equivalent bicycle. I had been preparing to contact my own insurer but was pleasantly surprised to be able to directly contact his without bothering mine - they were also very solicitous regarding injuries, giving many opportunities to report them and saying that at no point would this affect my right to get lawyery at a later date.
    Bicycle Legal weren't available as I had only minor skin-scrapes and hadn't insisted on being ambulanced away (which seemed to be the trigger the police would have required to do anything), but they would probably be more interested in you.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. gdm
    Member

    Cheers, @wingpig. Hopefully he won't end up being difficult like your own experience but that's a good resource to know about for finding his insurance details if need be.

    As friends have being saying, while it's good that he was contrite afterwards, I do need to keep asking myself if he would be having the same doubts about pursuing me if the fault in a crash had been my own.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. neddie
    Member

    Sorry to hear about your crash, gdm. Hope you recover quickly.

    No use to you now, but for the benefit of others:

    I've heard the best thing to do after a crash is to stay on the ground* and wait for the ambulance to arrive, no matter how lightly injured you are. That way the authorities are forced to take things seriously.

    *After dragging yourself away from any immediate danger.
    **I realise it may be hard to stop yourself from getting up, with the adrenaline pumping, potential embarrassment etc.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. 559
    Member

    @gdm, not good , hope you are feeling better.

    Would echo @Laidback comments re “urban freeway” it is too easy to drive from Meadowbank Terrace on to Dukes Walk without any deaccelerating or manoeuvring. That is not said as an excuse, drivers must and should take responsibility for their own actions.

    If it was the other way around they would be without hesitation claiming via their insurance for every damage and inconvenience.

    Don’t be reasonable, be practical.
    • Your bike transport may be a write off
    • You have sustained injuries
    • Had to take time off work
    • Inconvenienced your home life
    • Potentially go to physio

    Posted 8 years ago #

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