CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
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It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
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Ahem. A 'revolution' it is not. Retaining 13 Class 170 TurboStar sets to run more services after Glasgow-Edinburgh is electrified in 2018: incremental improvements more like. A baker's dozen's worth in fact.
Very welcome much of it, but don't believe the hype.
More details:
Presumably this is good news for carrying bikes -
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The faster services will be operated by refurbished InterCity 125 “High Speed Trains”, to be switched from the Great Western main line in England.
Mr Verster said the 40-year-old trains - similar to those run by Virgin Trains East Coast to Inverness and Aberdeen - were likely to be rebranded, such as “intercity express”, to better reflect their new role.
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Just as well the HSTs were built to last!
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the InterCity 125 brand name is rarely mentioned officially by the private train-operating companies
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Hm. According to the Scotrail franchise specification on Transport Scotland web site:
"21 class 170s retained beyond December 2018 with a refresh programme"
So, the recently announced 13 retained class 170s: are they in addition to the 21 specified in the franchise? Or have 21 been cut to 13?
I think we should be told!
http://www.transport.gov.scot/rail/scotrail-franchise/scotrail-franchise
Inc rail line to St. Andrews?? (Red line on map.)
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/hopes-for-st-andrews-rail-link-boosted-1.909033
@chdot
"Presumably this is good news for carrying bikes -"
It is not
http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/03/cuts-coming-to-train-bike-spaces/
Provision will be worse than it is now.
@ Rosie
Yes I know about the new rolling stock, but I was referring to the extra 125s, which presumably will have similar space to current east coast Virgins(?)
"Inc rail line to St. Andrews?? (Red line on map.)"
Ho ho.
That'll be the bus link. Or maybe the cycle path?
Sadly it turns out to be the bus link (ScotRail on Twitter).
Odd that it's the only one in the whole map area(?)
Maybe because the map does not include the Highlands. IIRC there's a 'replacement' bus link between Inverness and Ullapool, thence to catch the ferry to Stornoway. Used to be a railway before the Beeching axe, so I guess it's a statutory bus link. Maybe the St Andrews falls into the same category, hence it is indicated on the railway map?
Maybe because the map does not include the Highlands. IIRC there's a 'replacement' bus link between Inverness and Ullapool, thence to catch the ferry to Stornoway. Used to be a railway before the Beeching axe, so I guess it's a statutory bus link.
There was never a railway to Ullapool. The nearest station is Garve, on the Kyle line, some 40 miles away (and the bus is probably quicker anyway).
The red line to St. Andrews may be because either a/ they've campaigned for it to be added to the map as an interim step to the railway or b/ because it is actually a destination on the national rail network ticketing system and you can buy a through ticket (obviously with a bus journey included).
Indeed. it seems there was an attempt to build a line, but it never went ahead.
Parliamentary question on the matter:
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1894/aug/03/garve-and-ullapool-railway-company
Plans:
Even a fictional account of the struggles:
"An Abridged History of the Construction of the Railway Line Between Garve, Ullapool and Lochinver; And other pertinent matters; Being the Professional Journal and Regular Chronicle of Alexander Auchmuty Seth Kinimonth"
Probably in the same late frenzy of Railway Mania that saw serious attempts made to build a railway on Skye and Lewis.
Probably in the same late frenzy of Railway Mania that saw serious attempts made to build a railway on Skye and Lewis.
You'll be wanting that tomorrow then?
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Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
29/03/2016, 08:55
#BikeRail cuts. Spokes is on @BBCScotland @kayeadams 9-10am. Pls phone/text/email http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b055jkys/contact Background http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/03/bikerail-cuts-opposition-mounts
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On NOW
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Should there be more space for bikes and prams?
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"Probably in the same late frenzy of Railway Mania that saw serious attempts made to build a railway on Skye and Lewis."
There was a (narrow gauge I think) railway on Skye briefly, from the marble quarry near Torrin to Broadford, if memory serves. There's a walking//cycle route along part of it now.
"On NOW"
Louise White rather than Kaye this morning so almost endurable as a listening experience.
There seemed to be a majority of pro-cycling viewpoints from the callers during the 20 or 30 mins I heard.
"There was a (narrow gauge I think) railway on Skye"
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PRESSURE is mounting on transport chiefs to rethink "shocking" cuts in bike spaces on key tourist and commuter rail routes, as campaigners warn cyclists will be driven away.
...
John Lauder, the national director of charity Sustrans Scotland, tweeted that it would cause a "real problem" for people trying to access the Caledonia Way in Argyll. Broadcaster Lesley Riddoch added: "Only 2 bikes on Oban line in future - instead of 6? No way."
Ewan Jeffrey, spokesman for bike and rail at Spokes, said: "It means a family group can’t go [on the West Highland Line]. Or groups of friends. And for bed and breakfasts, bunkhouses, and little shops that get a lot of their income from cycle touring - the people won’t be able to get there. I find it shocking that Transport Scotland has been happy to let that happen.”
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@chdot:- Can you post all the text?
Glad Lesley Riddoch has something to say on this.
"There was a (narrow gauge I think) railway on Skye"
In addition to the marble railway, there was also a Diatomite railway on Skye in the Lealt glen and an ironstone railway (briefly) on Raasay in the early 20th century.
I'd forgotten about the diatomite one - the shore near there was my best ever otter encounter...
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Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
29/03/2016, 2:08 pm
#Bikerail cuts: Spokes on @BBCScotland #DriveTime expect 5.45/5.50ish http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/03/bikerail-cuts-opposition-mounts
@CyclingEdin @keithirving1 @POPScotland @edfoc
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But what few realise is that ScotRail would rather not carry bikes at all. Its Dutch operator Abellio wants passengers to leave their bikes at stations and hire another at the other end.
The company’s focus is on creating cycle facilities at stations, doubling the number of secure cycle parking spaces within two years and opening cycle hire points at 25 stations.
ScotRail Alliance managing director Phil Verster was pretty frank when he told MSPs last month: “We are much more interested in developing cycling facilities at stations and in developing cycling as a way to get to our stations. In the end, our trains are not really aimed at moving bicycles.
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http://www.scotsman.com/news/alastair-dalton-taking-on-cyclists-always-a-scotrail-risk-1-4087585
Sure, works for able bodied commuters and day trippers to cities who only seek the utility of a bike for the last mile or two and would otherwise be getting a bus or walking.
But not when I want to cycle to North Berwick and get the train home or take a mountain bike to Fort William.
I thought in nederlands you could take a bike on trains outwith the rush hour if you bought it a ticket.?.?
If cycling became as popular here as it is in nederlands then the abellio policy of two bikes is more practical?
Haymarket has vast empty concourse for example. Plenty of space at Waverley where the market happens. Central in Glasgow has some dead space but not much. Queen street none.
I can't help thinking that Scotland is missing out on a whole sector of economic activity. People love the Scottish countryside. They love to cycle on car-free routes. But it's really hard to get a bicycle from the population centres to the countryside without cycling it there or driving. It's impossible if you have a trailer or non-standard bike.
Imagine a Scotland criss-crossed with long distance trails, peppered with bunk-houses and repair shops and serviced with bike friendly trains and buses. Imagine the money it could bring to rural areas all year round.
But even if Patrick Harvie were the new Henry Dundas would it even make any difference? The revolution in thinking that would be required to have a world where I set off with my bike in the guard's van of a train rather than on a Chinese-made bike carrier fitted to an estate car makes my head spin.
You do sometimes think ScotRail only 'understands' commuters.
That said, they are quite keen on 'retro' - steam trains.
How hard is it for them to 'get' tourists - people who are much more likely to travel off-peak, on routes away from (but starting in) the central belt with luggage (including bikes).
As 'we' know they have a couple of trains with guards vans that do the Fife Circle at rush-hour (Mon-Fri only).
Cyclists are quite tight? Is that a stereotype? We need to be more profligate. Personally I have spent between £2 and £2.40 on three occasions this week in the apple pie bakery of Carnwath. A significant boost to the local economy? On a related matter, you can park where you like in Carnwath but the local shops turnover is concerning to me (not the apple pie which is on sound footing but the stove shop, the jewellery shop, the bird seed shop etc).
In Ghent there are thousands - no exaggeration - cycles parked at the station in two tiered storage facilities. I had the impression that people had specific commuting cycles that they left there in some secure system, and didn't carry their cherished machine on the train. If we had the kind of numbers we'd like to have coming in from Linlithgow & Falkirk that would be a more practical solution than everyone taking their own cycle.
For touring or getting to a mountain bike centre as said above you are not likely to take the commuter route or travel at peak time, so should be able to take your own cycle.
So I think there are 2 issues, one commuting, the other tourism - and as regards tourism this present policy is destructive.
In Germany too, few commuters take the bike on the train. With integrated public transport, you usually get to within walking distance of your destination quite fast and reasonably comfortably. Some people then leave a basic bike at the station/underground/tram/bus stop to cover the last few hundred metres. Such "walking replacement devices" are often old/cheap ones that people happily leave over weekends or holidays as they are not likely to get stolen.
As Rosie said, tourism is a different matter. Germany has the advantage of having a very dense rail network with frequent services, which would be more difficult in large parts of Scotland. On the high-speed Intercity Express (ICE) trains, I've never seen a bicycle or noticed dedicated space. The slower Intercity (IC) trains have some limited bike space (needs to be reserved). But on the same lines there are regional trains. Regional Express (RE) trains stop only in larger cities and are often almost as fast as the IC trains, while proper regional trains stop everywhere. Both RE and R have several multi-purpose spaces, sometimes dedicated to bikes but more frequently just an open space the size of 1-3 compartments with foldable seats where people leave anything larger (bikes, ski, rucksacks, whatever), and if you want you can sit on one of the foldable seats and hold your bike. You don't need a reservation and I think the bike is free.
Regional express trains between larger cities are quite long and even whole school classes on a bike tour can find space. Regional trains into the more remote or smaller towns are often only 2-3 carriages but two families with bikes should find space.
The point is really that there are different kinds of trains serving the same destinations. In Scotland/UK, if I want to go to Aberdeen or York, I think there is only the Intercity, isn't there? In Germany, between let's say Nuremberg and Munich or between Frankfurt and Cologne there are ICEs where bikes difficult or not possible but also REs with plenty of space.
Regional day tickets allow you to use any regional train in a certain area. For example, the Bavaria ticket costs 23 Euro for one adult (plus an unlimited number of own children) or 28 for 2 adults (plus unlimited number of own children) up to 43 Euro for 5 adults (plus children). It's valid all day on weekends and from 9am on weekdays until 3am next day.
These tickets are quite popular with families and also groups on a day trip to the country. Or you can try to cram as many train journeys as you can into a day...
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