CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News

Virgin Trains East Coast 'Azuma' train

(104 posts)

No tags yet.


1234

  1. ejstubbs
    Member

    Guess what? Infrastructure was damaged by unusually severe weather back in the day as well. It's not as if it all worked without a hitch until x years ago when it all started going to pot. It's a bit like looking at e.g. the Ribblehead Viaduct and saying <in an appropriate Yorkshire accent) "Ee, they built things to last in them days", ignoring the fact that (a) plenty of stuff "they" built "in them days" has fallen down or otherwise been replaced because it no longer met evolving needs (aka survivorship bias), and (b) the stuff that does survive still requires ongoing maintenance, and often major interventions (e.g. the Ribblehead Viaduct again), to keep it going.

    That's not to say that things haven't changed over the years, both in terms of the frequency/severity of severe weather events (we have an active thread on here right discussing climate change and its impacts), and changes to the way that existing infrastructure is maintained and new infrastructure is built*.

    The point I'm trying make is that heavy engineering is complicated and difficult, and IMO regurgitating Daily Express-style snide remarks about leaves on the line, the wrong kind of snow etc etc is not particularly helpful if what you want is to get a better understanding of the issues being faced and hopefully addressed (successfully or otherwise) by the folks actually responsible for this stuff.

    On the other hand, if folks just want to use this as another excuse to put the online boot in to the reviled-public-infrastructure-organisation-du-jour then by all means carry on.

    * An example of the latter would be the time and cost involved in reinstatement of the Borders Rail line even in the sections of the route that used the old solum passing through open country. It's not just a case of scraping off the old ballast and laying new track on old trackbed, embankments and bridges - everything needs to be assessed and very often completely replaced because stuff built to the old construction standards no longer meet modern requirements.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  2. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Infrastructure was damaged by unusually severe weather back in the day as well.

    The 1948 flood near Eyemouth springs to mind. Seven railway bridges were destroyed, and the Penmanshiel tunnel was almost completely submerged.

    I suspect the damage to the railway network in Berwickshire was so severe that it encouraged the case for disbanding services.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    “
    The point I'm trying make is that heavy engineering is complicated and difficult, and IMO regurgitating Daily Express-style snide remarks about leaves on the line, the wrong kind of snow etc etc is not particularly helpful if what you want is to get a better understanding of the issues being faced and hopefully addressed (successfully or otherwise) by the folks actually responsible for this stuff.

    “

    Agree and the relatively recent RailTrack period upset things by inserting (notional) cost efficiencies and losing some safety considerations, expertise and necessary maintenance programmes.

    But on things like leaves on the line (and treefall), the rail industry doesn’t seem able to adequately organise its vegetation management regime.

    Apart from visual amenity and wildlife concerns, a ‘let it grow too much and then cut it all down and chip it’ practice can’t be the optimum, and must increase likelihood of landslips.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    “

    The tunnel was also affected by the August 1948 floods. The damage caused by these floods led to the abandonment of much of the railway network in the south east of Scotland.[3]

    “

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penmanshiel_Tunnel

    Posted 4 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    Posted 4 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Drainage is not a topic that gets the pulse racing. Nonetheless, proper maintenance of drainage assets is fundamental to the safe operation of the railway. And that is why ORR continues to focus on helping Network Rail to get this right as a key part of our work to keep rail travel as safe as possible.

    “

    https://orr.gov.uk/news-and-blogs/orr-blog/2019/tunnel-vision-let-the-drain-take-the-strain

    Posted 4 years ago #

  7. LivM
    Member

    When I was a student (early 90s) we went on a field trip to Askham Bog near York - a nice birch wood beside the East Coast main line, whose interesting feature was that it showed a biological succession of vegetation that had grown up since the days of steam when it used to get a regular burning every few years from stray sparks.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  8. LaidBack
    Member

    Drift alert!

    So this is how bike spaces are described. note the tandem wheel removal requirement here


      What you need to know about Azuma and bikes
      • We’ve made it easier to bring your bike with you onboard. There’s space for your bike in different parts of the train.
      • The size of the bike storage is the same on all of our trains. Tandems up to 2.5m in length with both wheels removed can also be stored onboard.
      • Folding bikes are treated as luggage and can be stored in the luggage areas.
      Booking
             • Bikes must have a reservation (tandems require two). Reservations can be made at station Travel Centres or over the phone.
      • When you book your bike space for an Azuma train, you’ll be given a bike reservation which will have the coach letter displayed clearly so you know where to wait on the platform to board with your bike.
      Boarding with a bike
      • Bike storage is mostly located in the centre of the train and your bike reservation will let you know which coach to wait besides.
      • As always, please arrive 10 minutes before the train is due to depart. A member of staff will assist you with loading your bike.

    Elsewhere they have a FAQ section. This dealing with double deck bikes as we all know these are so common (!)

      Unfortunately we do not have the space to carry Tricycles, cycle trailers or double deck cycles. However, tandems are accepted if they conform to the following specifications and have two reservations: 100cm in height x 60cm in width x 260cm

    On this bit the wheel removal requirement is not mentioned, just because...

    The shown racks on website are all vertical hangers so obviously a tandem even with wheels removed will be taller than that and anyway with no wheels becomes a collection of bike parts that can't be hung up...

    Of course I expect our folding recumbent tandem to be banned completely in case it becomes a trend like double deck cycles...

    Posted 4 years ago #

  9. neddie
    Member

    I suspect the 2 reservations & wheel removal requirements are there to discourage as much as possible anyone bringing a tandem, or ever travelling with their family

    Posted 4 years ago #

  10. acsimpson
    Member

    Last time I looked you needed two passenger tickets to get two bike reservations. Most tandems have two passengers but does that mean one can't take a tandem on a train to meet someone for a ride?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    “Last time I looked you needed two passenger tickets to get two bike reservations.”

    That used to be the case when GNER allowed booking online.

    Don’t know what happens now, but, never had a problem going to a station and getting a(nother) bike reservation.

    For last couple of years with LNER I have used Twitter.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  12. SRD
    Moderator

    'double deck cycles'?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  13. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Presumably they mean tall bikes rather than genuine double deck bicycles, or, even more improbably, genuine double deck tall bicycles!

    (Admin edit: second link now to the actual photo)

    Posted 4 years ago #

  14. LaidBack
    Member

    @Arellcat - excellent links. The Ordinary cyclist doing LeJoG then would be classed a tall bike and assume he hired a car and drove home? Trains of the 1890s would of course welcome such items as 'penny farthings'.

    I think the LNER text is intended to convey rules which will help manage demand and keep sales of car roof racks high.
    You know when these things work when they go on a forum and create doubts. (Such as will I get on at all even with a folder?)
    Tandems (& the Eurobike term I've heard used) are relatively easy to discourage. I note that the space on one bit of text is 260cm and elsewhere is 2.5m. Whatever the case then that must be horizontal floor space so why do they have hanging racks?
    Tulyar may have answer in post I've missed?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  15. SRD
    Moderator

    yes, thanks Arelcat. i suspect you're right. but baffled that tall bikes are popular enough for a mention?

    i am willing to be m mildly positive about tandem's being allowed. but it is certainly incoherent,

    Posted 4 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    "the stuff that does survive still requires ongoing maintenance, and often major interventions"

    Most people realise that. The infamous example being the Forth Bridge, which once they had finished painting, they had to start all over again. Until recently, when they cleaned all the paint off and applied a new formula coating which allegedly won't need to be repainted again for x number of years.

    "Drainage is not a topic that gets the pulse racing. Nonetheless, proper maintenance of drainage assets is fundamental to the safe operation of the railway. "

    This is certainly an issue, but as I said above perhaps changes to the landscape surrounding the railway corridors is a bigger one? Lots of hedgerows torn out and trees felled in the past 40 years; Lots of former farmland now the site of suburban sprawl, tarmac and concrete. So drainage that was adequate when surrounding farms were well drained and bounded by hedges no longer up the task when dealing with run off from arable monoculture mega fields or suburban culs-de-sac?

    "But on things like leaves on the line (and treefall), the rail industry doesn’t seem able to adequately organise its vegetation management regime."

    Presumably because, like painting the Forth Bridge, it is a Sysyphean task that costs money and Network Rail's predecessor Railtrack was not keen on spending money, the better to make a profit for shareholders? Prior to Railtrack, BR had been starved of investment so perhaps the rot started in the 1980s?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  17. HankChief
    Member

    So yesterday I went down to London on an Azuma train and am currently heading North on an old train.

    The Azuma was nice. Quiet and generally smooth (not totally smooth but certainly less jolty/rattly than the old trains).

    The seats are certainly harder and whilst I wouldn't say uncomfortable you definitely sit on them rather than in them as you do in the old trains.

    The on board team were getting used to the new trains and genuinely seemed excited about them. Our arrival in London was 3 minutes late which isn't too bad.

    More trains and faster stopping services will certainly be welcome once they have fully rolled out the azumas.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    First impressions: #AZUMA nice and shiny but luggage racks no longer fit my folding bike; there’s no space behind the last seats where big suitcases and bikes could go; and no guards van for bulky luggage.

    No problem this morning - only two passengers in the carriage but no idea what i'll do when i'm boarding at kings cross and someone else puts a suitcase on first (Images very good at sprinting to the end of the train to board, but sometimes people dive on while i'm folding the bike.

    (it's mainly the rack that doesn't fit; i suppose i could get a smaller rack?)

    Posted 4 years ago #

  19. SRD
    Moderator

    hmmm...so i tweeted about this, and LNER says that there is a 'bulk storage area'. which is odd, because the LNER staff on the train told me there was nowhere unless I had a bike reservation.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    Well that’s probably the problem of words and interpretation of rules.

    And the whole ‘when is a bike not a bike’.

    Suspect “bulk storage area” is what ‘we’ might call the guards van!

    Folding bike in bag ‘luggage’, unbagged not(?)

    Posted 4 years ago #

  21. Arellcat
    Moderator

    @SRD, I used to travel with the bike using a biggish handlebar bag plus a big messenger bag. It was an attempt to approximate the utility of a Brompton.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  22. LivM
    Member

    I went on an LNER service a few months ago and was interested to see that they were positively encouraging people going to London (certainly those in big groups) to check their luggage into the guard's van at the front. There was just about enough space for our (booked) bikes but only just!

    Posted 4 years ago #

  23. SRD
    Moderator

    @arellcat I am currently taking food + clothes for 3 days and need ever bit of my Arkel’s humungous capacity...

    Posted 4 years ago #

  24. LaidBack
    Member

    Bike blues on a Scotrail train. New/old HST guard said no way to my bike.
    Said it would be banned on a 170 too. Well now on board that but quite discouraging.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    Which station?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  26. LaidBack
    Member

    Waverley.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  27. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Which bike? I'm assuming it was the fearsome Nazca Quetzal tandem, but I fear it may have been a Fuego and that Scotrail is being petty.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  28. LaidBack
    Member

    Fuego. Unit had no hanging rack. Was with John S and his P-38 - also not allowed. Now on 170 train back from Dundee. Guard hasn't commented yet. Once we're past Leuchars it's non stop though :-)
    (Sorry - have hi-jacked Azuma thread and may shift gripe to the ScotRail thread).

    Posted 4 years ago #

  29. Tulyar
    Member

    Why have I missed this?

    Note that tomorrow at 14.30 we have a meeting of the Scotrail Cycle Forum at Transport Scotland in Glasgow - I'm attending along with Spokes, and I hope Go-Bike. (sub note for someone needing a bike part urgently in Edinburgh - I could bring said part to the meeting and hand it to someone heading back to Edinburgh - around 16.30 when meeting ends)

    HST

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/72157702071089124

    I've posted an agenda item on this & have a list of what needs sorting out on this train. Using a mailstar as the 'test bike' there were problems getting it on the hook, and I had to squeeze into the cupboard with an assistant outside to get the bike out.

    The system in the power car defeated all attempts to use it 1) its crap 2) with a much better design, which has been used for over 30 years on trains across the rest of Europe, you can fit at least 5 bikes in the same space.

    In both cases the bike had to be fully lifted off the floor, and for a 20Kg bike, the limits for a lift to shoulder height, with straight arms, square to the load, on a stable static 'floor' are well short of 20Kg for an average, fit adult male - per HSE Manual Handling Regs (MHOR 1992). Any harm to a non employee caused by lifting contra to limits of MHOR might be considered as an offence per Section 3 HSAWA 1974 (unlimited fine &c)

    Correspondence/e-mails to me at usual address.... or via CUK.

    IEP - AKA Azuma/Nova ...

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/72157709984712701

    Back in 2014 I gathered a motley crew at Warwick Parkway, and we trouped off to a design studio with a big upright gas-pipe bike (cycled over from Coventry) a 'bent (courtesy of Arellcat's pal Kim riding out from Birmingham), and a tandem - almost had a windcheetah courtesy of a disabled user from Slough, but he cried off as unwell. Pictures were taken, comments made, which were largely ignored/overruled in the final design. Hence we know that a tandem with wheels removed does fit.

    The luggage racks apparently are a good fit for 2 Bromptons on each level, which of course has no connection to the fact that the MD of Hitachi Rail-EU at the time used a Brompton....

    I'm gathering many reports and pictures, directly and through CUK. IEP's are due to enter service with Hull trains, TPE, and now East Midlands Trains (with the new Abellio franchise).

    Class 156

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/with/72157702071089124

    Note also the daft instructions for Class 156 - and I'd welcome reports - to Scotrail SM team (cc me with a link) of security checking of the hooks, noting the unit number (156 XXX) like these

    Class 220/221

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/with/72157702071089124

    Likewise videos & condition reports on the Cross Country (& Virgin) Class 220/221. These really are not fit for purpose as the hooks are bending and pulling out of their ceiling fixings, whilst totally failing to hold the bikes stable, so they crash around damaging the train & bikes. My proposal for the removal of the buffet counter and provision of luggage racks & bike stowage would have fitted at least 4 bikes in this space, with a luggage rack over them, PLUS some perch/fold down seats for excess passengers.

    Software Nerds/Cyclehack

    Some of you might know of the apps that have been developed through open rail data - notably Real Time Trains (Tom Cairns) and Open Rail Data - which shows your train reporting in each track section for a limited number of locations (very handy as it will show your train in the platform well before it appears on the Passenger Information Screens (PIS).

    RTT basically uses DARWIN, which harvests train running data from TRUST, to feed the PIS (or now called Customer Information System) to display on various phone apps, station screens etc.

    DARWIN v.16 now has the facility to attach (Push-Port) details of the trains, such as the number of toilets, the passenger loadings, and (it seems possible) the available bike spaces, whether or not these are reservable.

    Perhaps I need a primer to upgrade my software wrenching skills from PDP basic/Fortran4 on 80 column self punched cards.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  30. HankChief
    Member

    If I'm allowed thread drift on a thread drift....

    One point that could be made to Scotrail is that the Haymarket Depot on Russell Road is causing an awful lot of pollution/disturbance by running the diesel HSTs day and night on their motors whilst in the depot being serviced.

    There is a continuing saga of attempts to get this practice to stop but in the mean time it is not helping the air quality.

    The air quality her is doubly important given the attempts to block the Roseburn Terrace cycle route on pollution grounds and certain individuals wanting to do their own monitoring of the pollution levels.

    Any help here would be appreciated.

    Posted 4 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

1234

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin